Nonhuman Intelligences and the Challenge of Disclosure | Interview

By | September 4, 2023

Hi Everyone, 

Earlier this afternoon I did an interview with James Iandoli of the Youtube Channel, Engaging the Phenomenon. I’ve known James for so many years that I always enjoy talking with him. I thought this was a particularly fun conversation. I hope you enjoy. 


23 thoughts on “Nonhuman Intelligences and the Challenge of Disclosure | Interview

  1. MarkH

    Hi Richard
    Is disclosure going to be the story of Revelation or Revolution?
    The military-industrial complex (MIC) evolution of the US is almost complete. In 1783, Washington, while arguing with Congress for troops’ pensions, knew how precarious a position the fledgling nation was. Understanding Democratic Republics are susceptible to Military dictatorships, his spontaneous relinquishing of command is a testimony of his sagacity and character – “Nothing now remains but for the actors of this mighty Scene to preserve a perfect, unvarying, consistency of character through the very last act; to close the Drama with applause; and to retire from the Military Theatre with the same approbation of Angells and men which have crowned all their former virtuous Actions.”
    It’s neither coincidence or historical irony that Eisenhower alerted the people to beware of the growing military-industrial complex. – “guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence…by the military-industrial complex,” which included the “iron triangle” -government officials, legislators, and military-industrial firms, such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and Northrop Grumman. With all the shenanigans in recent years in the US over its governance and the historical deceitful control of the people with accompanying acts earlier considered unconscionable and conspiratorial exposed as truth, can the government afford yet another narrative of untruth to become truth? When will the people rise up against such tyranny? Is freedom of speech being relinquished worldwide by one of the triads for this purpose? When is enough enough? And is this why disclosure and ontological shock presents a threat to the MIC today? Wouldn’t we all gravitate to a greater, better governance by beings unknown in the name of enlightenment? Indeed, the trade-off of insecurity for harmony is very addictive and alluring.

  2. Bjofod

    I feel like we are free to talk about extra terrestrials. Its like there is no longer any need to disclose anything.

    The challenge is that this is what they want us to believe, investigate and look into.

    What if they are not extra terrestrials all of them but just a different race of humans. Royal blood, longer lifespan, higher IQ and no empathy. The survivors of a long forgotten cathaclysm that is covered up now, and great influencers in our oldest history wich is covered up now. WHAT if ?

  3. Craig Champion

    What a joy to listen to two preeminent UFO-researchers, in-dialogue. James is certainly also a treasure to the UFO community.

    It dawned on me – rather than thinking of the ufo coverup exclusively in terms of an overarching governmental conspiracy, that it can also be acknowledged as a byproduct of the culture of what constitutes the general (over)classification of information. What I suspect is that within the government there are, as you point out, many, many factions and I’m guessing that within the intelligence community it’s no different – in fact I’m thinking that there exists both intra/inter-agency politics, with significant power and control dynamics at play, meaning that it isn’t quite the exclusive coordinated coverup effort that we might imagine. In other words, it’s not just one particular group, such as Zodiac managing all of the ufo information but additionally, also the ongoing operational determination of what constitutes classification of information itself, within a system of secrecy. To this point, many would regard much of the currently classified data as OVER-classification of information. Indeed, perhaps the crux of the matter can be defined as – where does one draw the line between what is truly an issue of national security versus information that the public should have every right to know. In other words, within this culture of secrecy, operating outside of any congressional oversight, abc agencies might institutionally deem data that would otherwise be of genuine public interest and of no real security breach as “classified” information. Perhaps this is where Congress needs to put their focus – what information, genuinely warrants classification. I suspect that in the case of UFO secrecy, it may come to pass that the technology aspect will remain the most classified, with the rationale being that we need to keep it from our “rivals,” etc. perhaps even more-so than, “is the population ready for the fact that we are not alone.”

    Anyway, enjoyed the conversation.

    Thanks, Richard!

  4. AbeFX


    Regarding aliens living among us; don’t know if you ever read any SF, but it brought to mind a novella written by Iain M Banks titled THE STATE OF THE ART in which the author explores the topic.

    Trivia – Elon Musk is apparently a fan of Banks :

    “SpaceX / Elon Musk dubbed their East Coast floating landing pad (or “Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship”, (ASDS) if you really prefer), Just Read The Instructions, apparently after a ship from Iain Banks’ Culture series. Its West Coast cousin is named Of Course I Still Love You, apparently another ship name from the series. A third is also slated for construction, to be titled A Shortfall of Gravitas.”

    If you’re interested, a free pdf download:

  5. Nickolas Caldarera

    Excellent conversation! I have listened to this countless times. 1) The banking families, deep state, and military industrial complex have their tentacles in every fabric of our life. I gladly give them the middle finger. 2) Richard you are absolutely correct about warring factions in our government. It’s important for UFO community and all the people that believe in truth and freedom; must support and protected the warring factions for disclosure and freedom. 3) the UFO subject has come a tremendously long way in my 42 years of living. When I was a little kid, I found out about this subject from shows like “Unsolved Mysteries” and obscure History Channel shows. 4) This fight is a marathon not a sprint. It’s about the future of the human race. It’s delusional for a person to think the Deep State and Military Industrial Complex don’t have a plan for all situations. We need a plan for all situations.

  6. Warwick Mccormick

    Hi Richard. I think that’s the first time I’ve heard you really flesh out the idea that recent disclosure moves maybe motivated by money. I think you might be onto something here. These men portray themselves as Boy Scouts motivated by sense of duty; however this image has not been accepted by a lot of people in the community. A profit motive might better explain their actions, and also explains why they won’t step over the line and reveal classified information. I’ve got nothing against them making a profit, but I wonder if this disconnect is what has made so many people suspicious of their agenda

  7. itsmeRitaC

    Richard, i am agreeing with you. 🙂 I am at 23 minutes. I have actually expressed that perspective in a post here at sometime in the past year. I had the idea that this is about the ‘lesser’ contractors who have some of these MIC and intel. folks working for them or making big money investments and wanting access to the ‘stuff’. I think that is likely what is a major purpose in all of this. And so that is the end game, imo.

    Thank you! I had forgotten that angle. Well there we go! That is enough for me. I wonder how much Schumer is invested? These people are not all of a sudden ‘nice guys’ working hard for their constituents all of a sudden, because the topic is uap, and i still say that no one should go along with that seed change from ufo. But it seems to fit with this basic theory. I am going to say i have now cracked the case of ‘why now’? 🙂

    This is a very interesting conversation. 🙂

    Oh, yes. Likely a black market dealing with this stuff too! And let’s face it, Raytheon can sell to the highest bidders too. And likely has been. Why not? who would be controlling all of that inventory? OK. I think this discussion is right on it.

    Regarding NIDS, i can’t find anyone who can debate Greenstreet’s facts on them. It is really , i have no words for it. I can’t even find it humorous. Honestly. Rip off artists is a compliment. IMO.

  8. itsmeRitaC

    Maybe crash retrieval and reverse engineering will be in China’s next five year plan!!!! 🙂 Sorry, i couldn’t help myself…………………. Thanks Richard.

    I liked your low key comment on u.s. strategy underlying the latest ties between Russia and China btw.

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      I suspect China is doing serious work on this subject. The Chinese government does support civilian UFO research throughout the country and the sense I have gotten is that they keep tabs on it all. And yes, the US has once again blundered big time geopolitically and everything it has tried to do to Russia and China looks like it is backfiring big time. Unbelievably arrogant, short sighted, and generally foolish leadership.

  9. itsmeRitaC

    When it is being said that all the hours of secret testimony was given to IG. I am just going to say it and please correct me, i mean this. Why would i even believe that? Unless someone knows that the IG is above all subterfuge , etc. I mean, i have no reason to be a believer in what these people are telling me about what? I still don’t see any there there. And Bob Lazar is the guy that did put himself on the line. And from what i can tell, he also gave actual information. And. He lost his security clearances and lived to see another day.

    I am very tired of security clearances being an excuse, but it works. I see it as a cult of folks who feel it like an umbilical chord. I mean, we are out here living without any clearances and functioning. Why are there tens of thousands in the state who care more about their jobs than truth? That is what i have not said but it all is clicking for me now. I find it reprehensible and they are not on the right side of human history. There, i have said it and that is how i feel. 🙂

    They can conduct house to house raids aka killings of civilians all over the world in their ‘wars’. But they are too scared of losing their clearances from the naval of the MIC. Time to cut your chords ‘men’.

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      Always appreciate your thoughts, Rita. I agree with you about Lazar. And yes, the security clearance “cult,” as you refer to it, has tremendous power. I can’t blame you for feeling frustrated about it, but there is no question that those individuals who have spent their careers trying to obtain those clearances seem extremely unwilling to risk them.

  10. Eric_T_Amble

    The Mary Elizabeth Elliot/Griffith connection makes me wonder whether “Zodiac” was just an internal or unofficial name for the program inside TRW. Whatever may have motivated ‘Halifax’, I bet a lot of people in these programs—naturally curious but kept in the dark about programs other than their own—are just as frustrated about the cover-up as we are!

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      it’s possible — what seems clear is that Mary Elliot and Griffith (“Greg Halifax”) seemed to believe Zodiac was the proper name of “the program,” and that the Bigelow group (Puthoff, Green, Davis, etc etc) which morphed into TTSA and beyond seem to believe it. That doesn’t mean they are correct, but it’s certainly interesting.

  11. Richard Lamb

    The use of the label “Zodiac” is likely to have more occult, esoteric meanings here, on the UAP matter. I’ve personal experience with the validity – and I use that word with intent – of astrology as a discipline, having explored Carl Jung’s delvings into this lampooned subject. In short, the role consciousness plays in whatever we are experiencing in the UAP domain.

  12. Bjofod

    About Zodiac and MJ12 wich probably means Majestic 12. The Zodiac consist of 12 star constellations as we know as the 12 astrological signs. They are indeed the 12 majestic constellations. But the nr 12 is more. Lots of codes and symbolism used, enough to believe they are addicted to symbols both graphical, verbal and numerical. Possibly used as markers and timestamps for events and sublime messages between eachother above our head but in plain sight.
    12 is also the nr of disciples in the new testament. Disciples with a different word is student and follower. Here is two possible meanings of the code 12

    12 Companies that work with black budget programs.

    12 Majestic persons that are the head of the programs or possibly the board.

    12 Alien ( does not have to be ET) persons that are the untouchable rulers behind the scenes.

    12 is a significant number in this and so is 3, 9 and 11.

  13. gregjacobi

    –> My anonymous social media friend:
    What’s the BIG SECRET nobody is talking about?? David Charles Grusch refers to interviewing over 40 people over 4 years that “directly” worked for the US Gov’t UFO Program. He is referencing the AAWSAP effort. Which employed nearly 50 full-time scientists at BAASS, LLC who won the AAWSAP contract from the DIA’s “Defense Warning Office.” That means he interviewed folks like: Dr. Eric W. Davis, Dr. Colm A. Kelleher, Dr. James T. Lacatski, John F. “Jay” Stratton, Dr. Travis Shane Taylor, Jacques Vallee, Dr. Harold E. “Hal” Puthoff, et. al.

    But everyone is simply assumed because it has been inferred that the Grusch has interviewed 40 individuals who worked for some hidden, rogue, Special Access Program that involved the reverse-engineering of recovered non-human technology. This is NOT the case!! Grusch has interviewed NOBODY who worked for the rogue, UFO SAP involving captured alien spacecraft.

    This also explains why James Fox, Ross Coulthart, Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal all have the “inside scoop” on the identities of these “whistle-blowers.” We all think there are more than 3 dozen Bob Lazar like engineers or physicists coming forward about their work at Lockheed Martin in a Special Access Program with the goal of duplicating non-human technological hardware… But nobody from this elusive, hidden, rogue Waived SAP has come forward.

    The only new names are the 3 whistle-blowers who all worked as liasons on the Congressionally-mandated, UAP Task Force: 1.) David Charles Grusch – the NRO/NGA liason on the UAP Task Force; 2.) Colonel Karl E. Nell – the Army Future’s Command liason on the UAP Task Force; and 3.) “Jonathan Grey” (which is a Gov’t pseudonym) – the NASIC liason with the Department of the Air Force working on the UAP Task Force.

    I just finished tracing back each and every claim made by David Grusch to one of the members of the “Invisible College” or AAWSAP scientists. From some UAP killing people, to negative neurological side effects, to the size of craft dwarfing the size of a football field, to stepping inside a 40 ft craft that is as large as an NBA stadium inside, to codename for a crash-retrieval program, to the Gov’t cover up, hostile intent of some entities, the Interdimensional Hypothesis, the private defense contractor running a back-engineering program, etc. Literally EVERY claim matches to a specific named individual I have video proof of them telling the same story Grusch can be heard retelling. I’m 110% convinced we’ve been lied to. Grusch’s anonymous sources ARE the embodiment of the AAWSAP study and the nearly 50 full-time staff who worked for Robert Bigelow’s subsidiary of Bigelow Aerospace that got awarded the $22M contract on September 8, 2008 by the Defense Intelligence Agency.

    I do NOT like being mislead! For a moment, I truly drank the Kool-aid and believed David Grusch had been talking to a few obscure engineers or physicists who personally back-engineered alien spacecraft on behalf of Lockheed Martin. But then I listened to the claims. Recognized hearing them well before now… And then figured out the “secret UFO Program” he was read into was simply AAWSAP. And then it started all coming together. And instead of hoping 40 brand new Bob Lazar-like people had come forward to “blow the lid” off this hidden SAP we all know involves some private, Defense Contractor duplicating ET Tech… I realized all the rumors about Lou Elizondo “coaching” David Grusch and “grooming” him on how to speak were true. And that Elizondo coordinated all 40 of these individuals from the AAWSAP effort swarming Grusch out of nowhere. Lue used to be outspoken. We would hear from him on a weekly basis. Notice we haven’t heard a single peep out of him despite all these developments.

    This whole whistle-blower thing is BS!! He isn’t blowing the whistle on any new program we’ve never heard of!! He’s merely discussing the results of a Program that ended nearly 13 years ago that any avid Ufologist already knew about. That’s why all these latest claims sound so familiar.

    All of Grusch’s allegations are only “news” to the general public who don’t study Ufology. But if you’ve read “Skinwalkers at the Pentagon” and watched podcasts of Dr. Colm Kelleher and Robert Bigelow discussing the results of AAWSAP… you quickly recognize Grusch is simply re-telling all the conclusions and studies by the AAWSAP investigators. He’s not dropping any new bombshells. His life ain’t endanger. This is all stuff that’s been divulged to the public and talked about on the A&E show “Unidentified” over the last few years already.

    That’s WHY the Gov’t shutdown David Grusch and said NO MORE hearings on UAP. They ain’t with the results of AAWSAP coming out.

    –> Me:
    I understand. But to what end did Elizondo coach and/or groom him? Why is it important to Lou/AAWSAP to have their dated program and claims being presented as true inside baseball ‘blowing the lid off’ type information? If this stuff is dated, when it comes out, when the 40 are revealed, don’t they know Ufologists will sigh and knock it down?

    –> Anonymous friend:
    Exactly!!!!!!!! My friend, that’s why Grusch’s sources are anonymous. And also at the same time, why Jeremy Corbell and Leslie Kean know the sources personally. They all have each other’s cell phone numbers. This was an attempt to force Disclosure rapidly by the Invisible College…and NOT by the US Gov’t who has been resisting, kicking and screaming the entire time. It’s so clear!!!

    This also explains WHY Dr. Sean M. Kirkpatrick from AARO wasn’t “biting” nor taking these allegations seriously. He knows who the anonymous sources are. It’s those “meddling kids” stirring up controversy from the old AAWSAP Program. The infamous Invisible College.

    It’s soooooo clear, man. That’s why James Fox in that clip above is saying, “If they don’t grant David Grusch a SCIF… It’s cool. I have the anonymous sources ON VIDEO…and I’ll just release the footage!” (While of course blurring their faces so the UFO Community who is very naive doesn’t realize it’s all the same damn people we keep hearing from year after year. No new people coming forward.

    –> Me:
    So it’s not the black box of secrecy being forced open by true inside-baseballers, it’s the meddling kids buzzing around the box like mosquitos trying to get attention.

    –>Anonymous friend:
    Exactly. The Invisible College has been trying to force Disclosure for decades. This is just their final attempt. Or more recent one.

    Remember your history… The Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group of 1985 was the Invisible College trying to figure out WHO the Gatekeepers were. That failed. They tried transforming AAWSAP into a Special Access Program to work alongside the Gatekeepers. That failed. They tried supporting Hillary Clinton campaign. That failed. They all jumped onboard the Tom Delonge train joining TTSA to force Disclosure. That failed. Then they convinced members of Congress to out the Gatekeepers using Grusch as a “whistle-blower.” And now that’s failed.

    They have repeatedly tried for almost 3 decades now to force the Gatekeepers who are reverse-engineering alien craft into the open. And have failed every single time.

    All these newcomers to Ufology who started getting into this topic over the last 4 or 5 years are totally unaware of this “Invisible College” group of people. They used to be the Aviary. Then the ADP-10. Then they formed NIDS. Then they worked for BAASS, LLC for the AAWSAP effort. Then they joined TTSA. They’ve literally formed over half a dozen different groups to try and force Disclosure and get to the center of the UFO labyrinth. The crown jewels is “Where are the goods? Where are the craft?” And Interestingly enough… They ALL think Lazar was a fraud. Dr. Eric W. Davis called him a liar. Christopher K. Mellon said he was just a radiation badge guy at Area 51 and that he lied. They don’t believe in Bob Lazar at all. But ironically, they believe there IS a super, secret reverse-engineering program deeply hidden by the US Gov’t within the private, Aerospace sector. They believe that religiously. And they want to be a part of that soooo bad. Now they’re all in their late 60s desperate.

    Some members of the Invisible College are in their 70s. Time’s running out. So that are pulling out all the stops to expose the REAL secret, hidden US Gov’t SAP. But Grusch ain’t talking to nobody from that. Period! But it pisses me off that they made it SEEM like he had.

  14. Bjofod

    Hi Richard…. Is this video real ?

    If it is we may be correct in suspecting that the influence from an unknown entity already is fully in place. And in much more important settings then this.

    Read her lips, she says the same things at the absolute same moment.

    To spooky to publish, just be aware it.

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      hahaha…. Tracey showed me this yesterday! Hilarious. Yes, I think that woman was the speechwriter and happened to know EVERY word of the speech. But those eyes! Yikes. 🙂

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