Special Interview on Davis-Wilson

By | September 25, 2021

Hi everyone. 

I will be releasing this interview to the Youtube public next Tuesday (along with the article below), but wanted it to appear here first. Many of you remember my five hour interview on this subject with an anonymous person (“Mr. X”) from a year ago. This individual happens to be a member of this website, but more to the point he is a remarkable researcher despite the fact that very few people know who he is. That is, outside a select group of researchers who have come to know him quite well. For my part, this is someone whom I consider a friend, but who in this context is simply someone who does excellent and thorough research. Plus, he is fascinated by the subject of UFOs. 

This gentleman and I have a two-hour interview for you, which serves as a very good followup to my conversation from last week with Jimmy Church on Fade2Black concerning my thoughts on the Davis-Wilson notes. The anonymous Mr. X and I have discussed many of these issues privately, but this turned out to be a good opportunity to do a real interview. 

Just as important, or perhaps even more important, is a 12K word analysis he has written on Dr. Eric Davis. This hasn’t been posted anywhere else to my knowledge, although I wouldn’t be surprised if he elects to have it elsewhere. But it has a home here. 

This is a very penetrating analysis of the possible activities of Dr. Eric Davis, all done from completely open sources available to anyone. It’s also not a “gotcha” piece, but a genuine analysis laced with a fair amount of genuine admiration for Davis. But someone had to put the pieces together, and that is what Mr. X happened to do. Some of the article gets a bit technical, but the vast bulk of it is not difficult to follow at all. For those people interested in the classified world connected with UFOs, this is a must-read. 


p.s. the article below does not have hyperlinks. I discussed this with the author, and his opinion is that they are not necessary. At this point, everything is searchable, and who can disagree? 



The Outsider, the Insider, and the Benevolent Collaborator: The Adventures of Scientist Eric W. Davis

By Anonymous (Mr. X)


Abstract: The life of Eric W. Davis has been an astonishing adventure. During the course of his journey, he not only had a meeting with Adm. Thomas Wilson that told him about UFO reverse engineering programs being operated without oversight, but was also informally (or maybe formally by now) read into a Lockheed reverse engineering program by a former vice-president of Lockheed Martin. He provides tidbits of information about this individual and what he revealed in various interviews that are available online. Finally, it’s suggested that Eric W. Davis is probably attempting to work from the inside out to end the UFO cover up. Even though this probably won’t be successful due to the fact it’s not in the interests of the aerospace corporations to reveal anything at all, we should respect and thank Eric Davis for his research in multiple fields and for what he has shared with the UFO community. Now, it’s time for him and others with actionable information to share all they know to force disclosure so this deception can finally come to an end.


Extraterrestrials, among other non-human intelligent entities, are visiting our planet and have likely been inhabiting it for ages. Moreover, the military industrial complex, multiple private corporations, and legacy aerospace corporations have participated not only in the perpetual cover-up of crashed and landed vehicles, but they have conducted reverse engineering programs. This is what scientist Eric W. Davis seems to believe if you read his public statements, take the time to analyze his writings, and listen to what he has said during multiple podcasts and radio shows. But he hasn’t formed this opinion simply by watching random UFO videos on YouTube. As a professional scientist, he has spent his entire life conducting careful research to unlock fundamental truths about physics and the UFO phenomenon. Due to his top notch research and steadfast efforts, he made connections and friendships that opened doors to wondrous places: Robert Bigalow’s NIDS (National Institute for Discovery Science), Harold Puthoff’s company Earthtech, the staff car of Admiral Thomas Wilson, the SCIF of a former vice president of Lockheed Martin, and most recently the ultra high-tech Aerospace Corporation.

This series of doors that opened and what transpired are real if he’s telling the truth, which I have no reason to doubt. Lue Elizondo, the former director of AATIP (the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) has gone so far as to declare him a “national treasure” and someone he believes to be incapable of lying. Coming from an expert judge of character like Elizondo – who helped manage security for Special Access Programs while working in the Pentagon – this sort of statement isn’t trivial. It means Eric W. Davis is the real deal. The long list of praises from multiple parties indicates he’s a trustworthy ally in the battle for scientific discovery. Due to this, when he makes a statement, I listen. In fact, I listen intently. For he is someone who has the educational background, field experience (working at Skinwalker Ranch), education, and contacts to know things the vast majority of people won’t.

To keep this article from turning into a book, I’ll skip his early career and most of his experiences with NIDS to focus on the most interesting adventures he’s experienced that we know about. There have almost certainly been others that have been hinted about online by people who admit they are blabbermouths. But even if all the most astounding experiences of his life so far have been disclosed online, they are enough to make for a best-selling three-part biography.

The Outsider

To get started, let’s talk about the leaked document known as the EWD (Eric W. Davis) Notes, or the Admiral Wilson Notes, or the Admiral Wilson document. They are an account of a real meeting between him and Admiral Thomas Wilson in a staff car in Las Vegas. If you want to know the full details of what transpired, the questions he asked the admiral, and what he was told, go online and do a search. 

Essentially, however, in April 1997, while Wilson was Deputy Head of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he agreed to a meeting with UFO researcher Steven Greer, Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, U.S. Navy Commander Willard Miller, and a small, select group of other individuals to discuss the runaway nature of UFO secrecy. After this meeting, Wilson searched for, and eventually found, critical evidence of genuine Special Access Programs (SAP) that were concerned with UFOs and possible extraterrestrials. When he tried to gain oversight access to one of these programs, Wilson was completely shut down and threatened by his superiors. In October 2002, after he had retired from U.S. government service, Wilson met with Dr. Eric Davis and described his experience. Davis took detailed notes, which he shared with a close group of colleagues, primarily in the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), which included Edgar Mitchell and a small number of other individuals. From that point the notes appear to have been shared with only a handful of individuals (including UFO researcher Richard Dolan in 2006), until they were leaked during the late spring of 2019.

For our purposes, there’s no point in going into greater detail at the moment. What’s important is that everyone in the world recognizes it was a real event. The phony notions being passed around the internet by certain parties and individuals that the document is anything other than an accurate written record he wrote after meeting with Adm. Wilson are intentional disinformation. Every objection is nonsensical while the evidence in favor of the reality of the document is huge: of a greater mass than the fuel it would take a rocket to travel to a star a hundred light years away.

Let’s get one objection out of the way. The “NRO document” or security alert that Dr. Steven Greer had his military advisor Commander Willard Miller provide Adm. Wilson before their meeting at the Pentagon is not critical to the reality of the EWD Notes. First, nowhere in the EWD Notes is the NRO document mentioned by Adm. Wilson, Willard Miller, or Eric Davis. 

Now, it’s interesting that Willard Miller has stated he was told by Adm. Wilson’s aid at the end of the Pentagon briefing that they knew of MJ-12 or an organization like it, had made contact, and were then told they didn’t have a need to know. But this organization or program was NOT one of the FOUR programs Adm. Wilson later discovered. It’s important to mention this because Dr. Steven Greer has claimed all of Wilson’s discoveries resulted from reading the list of codenames on the NRO document.

In fact, the NRO document did not lead him to these. Dr. Steven Greer may make it sound like the NRO document was the key to his discovery of the carved, waived, unacknowledged SAPs hoarding UFO craft without oversight, but it was not. 

The truth is explained in the EWD Notes. Admiral Wilson was told where to look for the programs after asking former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry and the previous members of the leadership team of the Senior Review Group of the Special Access Program Oversight Committee. This included the former Director of Special Programs Gen. Mike Kostelnik who would have been a key person to know due to the fact that he was also the director of the Special Access Program Coordination Office. Paul Kaminski, former Under Secretary of Defense, who would have been the former Chairman of the leadership team of the Senior Review Group, was also someone who provided him assistance. Along with Gen. Marshall Ward, these were the individuals that assisted Wilson in finding the programs. So, yet again, the NRO document is not critical or foundational to anything. It’s only a part of the story that’s not even included in the text of the EWD Notes.

Finally, the absolute authenticity of the NRO document is not important at all. All that matters is that Adm. Wilson recognized a codename — which was real — and used it to try to gain access to a program before the meeting with Greer and his associates at the Pentagon. It’s completely irrelevant if some other part of the document is made up or fictitious, or possibly not. History will record that he used a real codename to get his first denial and learn that MJ-12 or a program like it did exist.

Here is the statement from Willard Miller:

“Yes. Yes. It was also a little interesting aside, as I was leaving, the admiral’s aid turned to me and said, “You know, the subject of Majestic MJ-12 came up and there’s been a lot of debate as to, you know, whether that’s real, whether it ever existed.” And he said, “You know, we know it exists. We here at the Intelligence Directorate for the Joint Staff just don’t have the need-to-know what they do. And I found that to be a very interesting statement.”

There are other made up, fake objections that are able to be dismissed if you look at the evidence.

– It’s not a movie script. There are many reasons that it’s not. One reason is that it’s not written like a movie script. If it were a movie script, he would have at least made a basic attempt to write it like one. Yet another reason is not a single individual that had been a member of NIDs has ever portrayed it as a movie script. Instead, they give strange statements which are clearly NOT denials publicly and privately give other statements that only seem to make those that receive them believe more wholeheartedly in the reality of the notes.

– Eric Davis did not meet with someone pretending to be Admiral Wilson. This is absurd beyond belief.

– The full chain of custody of the document is known by researchers. This includes the name of the individual who rescued the document from Edgar Mitchell’s estate.

– It wasn’t a mean spirited hoax to try and deceive the gullible aging Edgar Mitchell. The membership of NIDS highly respected Edgar Mitchell. In fact, he was a consultant to their organization. No one in their organization would have ever pulled such a prank.

Due to the number of made up, obviously false theories floating around that try to dismiss the reality of the EWD Notes, I won’t list them all. The above are simply a handful off the top of my head. What’s more important is to show how and why the EWD Notes or the Admiral Wilson document is a completely legitimate record of a real meeting that took place in his staff car. In all fairness, we don’t know if everything Adm. Wilson told Davis was the truth, although there’s zero reason to believe he’d lie if he were taking such a risk to meet with him. Also, there’s reason to believe the “gatekeepers” Adm. Wilson flew out to see could have lied to him (perhaps about no progress being made). Yet what’s clear is that the EWD Notes themselves are Eric Davis’ attempt to provide an accurate account of what transpired at the meeting and what was said. Knowing that he would share it with his most trusted colleagues, he would have done his best to recall every important detail revealed to him. This is the ultimate hot potato, folks: a document that can direct us all to where the “core secrets” are sequestered from humanity. 

A good place to begin would be the Advanced Theoretical Physics group meetings that took place at the BDM corporation during the 1980s. The ATP meetings were gatherings of experts in the field of UFOs or related subject areas such as remote viewing and psychokinesis that met in a secure facility at BDM Corporation. The ATP group meetings are mentioned briefly in the EWD Notes. If you read the notes, you will see that it was an individual by the name of Oke Shannon that convinced Adm. Wilson to meet with Eric Davis. 

One giant boulder of evidence that composes the mountain of proof of the document’s authenticity is that UFO researcher Grant Cameron has revealed that many years previously Eric Davis gave him Oke Shannon’s notes from the ATP group meetings. This proves that Eric Davis and Oke Shannon did in fact have communication with each other. In fact, John Alexander, whose name is abbreviated in the EWD Notes as “JA” lists both Oke Shannon and Eric Davis as either participants or contributors to the ATP group meetings in one of his books.

Here is Grant Cameron on Oke Shannon, Eric Davis, and the EWD Notes:

And I’m looking at this document and I see Oke Shannon on the front cover of this document. And I go, “Oh my God.” Because I know who Oke Shannon is. Nobody else knows who Oke Shannon is. Twenty years ago, Eric Davis gave me a set of notes from the UFO working group. Twenty-six, twenty-seven pages. So, he gives me these documents and he says, ‘They’re Oke Shannon’s notes and you can’t release them until Oke passes away.” So I said, “Okay, fine.” So I’ve held these documents for like twenty years and they’re hand-written documents and they’re inside the UFO working group that John Alexander put out. And Kit Green was [at] the first meeting, Hal Puthoff was there, Ron Blackburn. All these guys with Top Secret SCI clearances, there’s about twenty of them.

And remember when I had it, the rumor got around that I had them. I had shown them at a conference. I just showed the first page that showed it was Top Secret Restricted, which is the same classification as the Majestic 12 document: Top Secret Restricted. So I put it on the screen, just for half a second, without Oke Shannon’s name on there. And then I get home and then Hal Puthoff contacts me and Hal says, “I understand you’ve got a list of names of a group that I was supposedly a part of.” And I go, “Yeah, I do!” He said, “Could I get them, please?” So I don’t put Oke Shannon’s name and I leave one other name out and I sent it to Hal. I never heard from him again, so he basically confirmed that these were real. So Eric Davis gives me these notes that are originally from Oke Shannon. So when I’m sitting in the Aquarius hotel, in the front lobby and I look at this document on this little iPad, I see Oke Shannon’s name and I go, “Oke Shannon.” And then I see Eric Davis, his notes and I go, “Oh! Those two guys! This is the whole deal. He had given me the notes before.” And I go, “What the heck is going on here?”

After the leak of the EWD Notes onto the internet, certain researchers contacted Oke Shannon to get him to discuss his role in the meeting between Davis and Wilson. He ended up saying very little — obviously trying to protect himself and his friend. Here’s his statement which confirms he knew both Adm. Wilson and Eric Davis.

Oke Shannon on knowing Eric Davis and Admiral Tom Wilson:

I don’t know the provenance of that purported document – I don’t know whether it’s real or not real,” Shannon said. “Let’s just leave it at the fact that I do know both of these gentlemen. Tom Wilson is an honorable man. And if this has embarrassed Tom Wilson, I am really sorry.”

At this point, we have established that Oke Shannon knew Eric Davis because they worked together on the Advanced Theoretical Physics group. We’ve also confirmed that Oke Shannon knew Adm. Wilson. This makes the statement in the notes that Oke Shannon convinced Adm. Wilson to meet Davis extremely plausible. 

The fact that Eric Davis knew Oke Shannon and he knew Adm. Wilson is a strong piece of evidence in support of the EWD Notes. I’ll say it again: this meeting happened. This is virtual certainty due to an extremely obvious and in-your-face piece of evidence that most people don’t notice. 

Not only did the EWD Notes document leak out of Edgar Mitchell’s estate, but other documents also leaked out. One of these is called the Alien Autopsy Email Chain document. The document contains communications between Kit Green, Eric Davis, Hal Puthoff, and other members of NIDS. A significant portion of the document contains messages sent by Eric Davis. Examining the two documents, you will see that the style of the EWD Notes (composed entirely by Eric Davis) and the segments of text written by Eric Davis in the Alien Autopsy Email Chain document are almost identical. Both are full of punctuation including very frequent use of brackets, lists, commas, slashes, etc. The two read like they were written by the same author—BECAUSE THEY WERE!

Moreover, Eric W. Davis admits that the Alien Autopsy Email Chain document is real. This makes it plain to see — in addition to all the other evidence — that he wrote the EWD Notes.

Eric Davis on the Alien Autopsy Email Chain Document:

“I saw it yesterday (Leaked Alien Autopsy Kit Green NIDS/Doc). It is not an electronic document. It’s a scanned photocopy of a printed document. And we don’t know who got a hold of it because it’s almost 20 years old. I have no further comment.”

Yet we really don’t need to compare the style of writing used in the two documents, because in addition to multiple “no comments,” Eric Davis has made some fascinating statements about the EWD Notes. The statements are important for two reasons. First, it shows he is concerned about the legal repercussions of discussing documents that may contain classified information. Secondly, he doesn’t flat out denounce the reality of the EWD Notes.

A Statement to UFO Joe (Joe Murgia) from Eric Davis.

(1) that per Tim McMillan’s Twitter posts per the leak from Ed Mitchell’s estate of the so-called Wilson notes, I did not have a lawyer nor did I consult one. I consulted my supervisor and a federal law enforcement/national security professional (who happens to have a law degree but doesn’t practice law) on the perils of publicly commenting on documents allegedly containing classified info., while one has active clearances.

A Transcript of Eric Davis Answering Questions on The Basement Office with Steven Greenstreet about the EWD Notes:

SG: Let me bring up…before…we’re pressed for time…tell me about the Admiral Wilson transcript.

ED: I can’t discuss that.

SG: You can’t discuss?

ED: I’m not at liberty to discuss it.

SG: Because you’re all over…you’re all over it.

ED: Oh, I know. Yeah. They were leaked out of Ed Mitchell’s estate and there’s nothing I can say about it.

SG: I mean, can you speak to the veracity of them?

ED: No, I can’t, I can’t address that at all. I won’t answer any questions on the Admiral Wilson notes.

SG: You don’t wanna speak to…at least whether these are…

ED: You know, they’re purportedly classified information. I can’t…I’m not at liberty to confirm or verify any aspect of those notes. You know, when you have security clearances, that’s something you don’t want to violate because the Department of Justice – under the Obama administration and it’s continued under the Trump administration – policies, is they will vigorously prosecute anybody with security clearances who will go out of their way to discuss any classified information that got leaked or released into the public illegally, so…or through other means.

SG: Okay.

ED: So I can’t address those notes in any form or fashion.

SG: So, Canadian Grant Cameron uploaded fifteen pages of documents (We still don’t know who uploaded the documents. ~Joe), allegedly notes taken from Dr. Eric Davis in 2002. So, whoever this Grant Cameron is…are you familiar with who this person is?

ED: Oh, I used to know him. Yeah, he’s a Canadian UFO investigator. He doesn’t investigate UFO phenomena, what he investigates is…his big claim to fame was investigating the U.S. president’s role in the UFO history.

SG: Where did he get these fifteen pages from?

ED: I don’t know. I’ve never seen whatever the pages are that he has. I haven’t seen those.

SG: Like, here is a…what appears to be a letter to you from a…Will Miller?

ED: Ah. Okay. All right. Well, he uploaded it but I can’t address any of it, so.

SG: All right, so is that a yes, these are real, these are true?

ED: I won’t, I won’t give you an answer (laughs).

SG: Okay. All right, I guess that’s enough of that.

If the meeting between Davis and Adm. Wilson never happened, the EWD Notes document would be a total, absolute farce. Even if he did not want to discuss nitty gritty details such as crash recoveries of ET craft, there would be ZERO repercussions from him stating, “I’ve never met Admiral Wilson and the meeting described in the document never happened.” Also, everyone who knows Eric Davis has stated he will call out anything he considers to be BS. If someone was passing around a fake document about him claiming an event took place that never happened, he would denounce it. Yet he has not. Instead, he has made statements which make it seem like he is trying to convey the fact the meeting did happen.

Certain parties have tried to say that UFO enthusiasts are being irrational by taking his no comments (which sometimes are much more than a simple no comment) as a “yes.” The reality is that Eric Davis is an extremely intelligent man, and if the notes were a hoax he wouldn’t make comments that would make people believe they were real. Instead, he’d say that the meeting never happened and the whole issue would be settled. Or, if a few diehards still felt that the meeting happened, he would say something like, “people can believe whatever the hell they want but I never met with Adm. Wilson.”

The reality is that no one that was in NIDS or TTSA has said or conveyed anything that would dismiss the reality of the meeting. What HAS happened is that multiple individuals have provided weird public statements that have had the opposite effect.

There have been slip ups, though. The well respected scientist Dr. Harold Puthoff, Eric Davis’ former employer, answered a question at the end of a long presentation and stated the outright truth — obviously because he was exhausted. He admitted that Eric Davis did meet with Admiral Wilson. In fairness, he does claim that he was only repeating the question he was asked, but he’s only saying that because it’s required if he wants to protect his security clearance (which is one of the longest held in the history of the United States).

Question and Answer about the EWD Notes (Hal Puthoff answering:

Q: Richard Dolan calls the Wilson Documents…the Wilson document leak, the leak of the century. Can I get a comment on the Wilson Documents?

HP: This is a question about the Wilson Documents that apparently got leaked on the internet. Admiral Wilson, who was one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff interviewed by my senior scientist colleague, Eric Davis. Since it discusses potentially, ongoing programs, I have no comment.

George Knapp is another individual who has been willing to go on the record stating that the EWD Notes are real and the meeting between Adm. Wilson and Davis happened. Being very close to the entire NIDS group, he knew the personalities of the people involved and states frankly that Eric Davis would not make stuff like the notes up and have the audacity to hand it to Robert Bigalow. These were not silly UFO buffs getting together after a convention or Roswell UFO parade getting beers and making up tall tales. They were serious people, doing serious work, with serious accountability.

I’ll just tell you this. I think that this…I am fairly certain that this is an accurate representation of a meeting that really did happen. It was typed up not to distribute it to the public, but to share with the very tight group of professionals and the NIDS Science Advisory Board. Among them was Dr. Edgar Mitchell. It looks like Dr. Edgar Mitchell after he died, his personal papers got in the hands of members of his family, and then dribbled out to the UFO community, and I think is where this came from. This meeting happened. Admiral Wilson denies it. I think he’ll always deny it. Dr. Eric Davis is not somebody who makes this stuff up. He certainly doesn’t make it up and then hand it to his boss Bob Bigelow in the Science Advisory Board made up by the whole clout. You may not believe that the contents of what is discussed in this meeting is true, and we have no way to verify if all this is true or not. But did the meeting take place? Yes, it did and this memo is an accurate reflection of what happened. I think that…remember we at the beginning of this podcast we talked about The New York Times poking around. Part of what they’re poking around about is this memo. Is it true? Does somebody have metamaterials stashed in the hangar somewhere or in a lab? Are they investigating it or they are trying to figure it out? It’s the most enticing part of the UFO mystery other than who are these beings, and where they are from, and why are they here. If you can have physical evidence that it came from somewhere else, that we are taking apart, and trying to figure out how it works, that’s an indication it’s not ours. It came from somewhere else. And that is sort of the holy grail. That would change the whole debate. If The New York Times goes ahead with that story, even if they are unable to prove it definitively, that’s a really big deal.” ~George Knapp

Another individual involved with NIDS has made statements that confirm Adm. Wilson located the SAPs, was denied access, and much more. This is the astronaut Edgar Mitchell. If you look through the extensive collection of comments he has made, you will see how he has made some stunning admissions. Most importantly, he even states that a colleague of his with a security clearance met with the admiral in Las Vegas. In another, he mentions receiving a report which we now know was the EWD Notes.

“Subsequently, another contact of mine, who must also remain nameless because he’s on classified programs, encountered the Admiral in Las Vegas, where he had been looking for and trying to get into the so-called “strategic access program” around the UFO incident and had been denied.”

We also know that someone within the NIDS network showed a couple pages of the document to Richard Dolan in 2006 and provided enough background information to indicate that the document was indeed serious and not any kind of hoax or movie script. The evidence that Richard Dolan had this experience long before the EWD Notes leaked is that he talked about the experience of meeting an insider that conveyed information to him about this issue on the Paracast program in 2007. 

Melinda Leslie is also someone who has questioned insiders about the validity of the EWD Notes. In a private conversation with Jim Semivan of TTSA, she asked multiple times about the notes and gave him many opportunities to denounce them. However, he didn’t. Instead, like others that were connected to NIDS or TTSA, he issued his own strange no-comment. 

For the sake of brevity, the bulk of the evidence in favor of the reality of the EWD Notes will be skipped. The meeting happened. There can be no reasonable doubt as to the fact that Eric Davis met Wilson, afterwards wrote down what he remembered, and distributed it to a very small number of trusted colleagues (most of whom if not all had security clearances) within NIDS. This was not him betraying his nation or his oath. Eric W. Davis already knew the UFO cover up was illicit and extra-legal with the truth being withheld from countless elected officials with a right to know (due to their decision making responsibilities) and military leaders (who would have a need to know about an extraterrestrial power flying in our skies and under the oceans). Likewise, Adm. Wilson discovered that these reverse engineering programs were actually hiding behind official carved out, waived, unacknowledged SAPs and were not disclosing their nature and budget transparently in the official database of the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology (OUSDAT). Instead, the leadership team of the Senior Review Group was allowing them to hide out without their honest and accurate information being available in the index of all SAPs that would normally be available to the ENTIRE Senior Review Group. 

This was breaking the letter and the spirit of the law. Worse, it was potentially putting the United States and the entire human species at risk because the subject was being kept under the control of small groups in private corporations instead of democratically elected officials. This travesty needed to be corrected. Eric Davis and Adm. Wilson both recognized this. To have any hope of eventually seeing a correction take place so the topic could be handled within the confines of the United States constitution, Adm. Wilson knew he had to get the information out and Eric Davis recognized he would require the assistance of his closest colleagues and associates. These two men behaved as true patriots: unlike the members of the Senior Review Group that threatened Admiral Wilson if he didn’t drop the issue.

Eric Davis may have already known a great deal about the UFO cover up before meeting with Adm. Wilson. However, it’s plain to see that if he had any lingering doubts about reverse engineering programs working on recovered ET hardware, Adm. Wilson erased them. Already having had UFO sightings and mysterious experiences at Skinwalker ranch and elsewhere, he knew there was a reality to the subject. But what Wilson had to say cemented it in place and created the solid foundation for the events that were to come in subsequent years. Admiral Thomas Wilson had been an outsider to the corporations that control the UFO topic, but soon Eric Davis would meet an insider that would let him get a peek beyond the veil.


In the time period of a year or so before the Adm. Wilson document leaked to the world, Eric Davis gave multiple interviews on the radio and on internet podcasts. He made many bold claims, including that UFOs/UAPs were absolutely real non-human craft with radical propulsion systems that manipulated the fabric of space, Roswell was indeed the crash of an ET craft and a stupid coverup, and a series of additional crashes took place. Obviously, he had a lot of knowledge that he wanted to share with the world. 

A great deal of this information came from him checking out the claims of insiders like the late Col. Philip J. Corso (whose claims he had completely verified), networking with the former membership of NIDS (including people like Kit Green who have had fascinating experiences of their own), and working for Hal Puthoff who was a subcontractor for AATIP. If you listen carefully to his interviews and connect different pieces of information he provides, you will discover another source of information that would have had more knowledge than Adm. Wilson. This individual is the insider that read him into at least one of the many UFO reverse engineering SAPs that span the private sector.

Here are the basic details that Eric Davis shares in his interviews. To get all of the pieces of information, you need to listen to multiple podcasts.

Davis knew a former retired vice president of a legacy aerospace corporation which he flat out stated was Lockheed Martin during an interview on Coast to Coast AM. After years of working hard to make connections, Eric Davis met him, whereupon this individual revealed he USED to work on a reverse engineering program. As this man was a former executive vice president of Lockheed, it’s logical to guess he would have had a leadership position. 

Eric Davis states this was a program from the 80s that shutdown in 1989, apparently due to two factors. First, a lack of significant progress in figuring out the technology. Second, that there were individuals in the DoD and government who felt the entire UFO subject was demonic. Davis makes it clear that these very small clusters (one, two, or maybe three people) in positions of power can shut down programs in the tracks. He recounted how a three star Air Force general once told this individual that patriotic Americans don’t want to have anything to do with demonic technology. Apparently, this individual read Davis into the program to a degree we cannot be certain of. It’s clear that at a minimum he was told that a large number of crash recoveries have happened, but Davis does state that he is aware of crash recoveries the public doesn’t know about that he cannot comment on.

I will provide quotes that back up what I’ve stated above. However, let’s look at the implications of the above.

  1. A) IDENTITY – Since Eric Davis was read into such a program, he would have information about the identity of a vice president of Lockheed that managed a reverse engineering program. He’d also have some information about the identity of the program itself, depending upon the extent that he was briefed and read in. If he signed NDAs or security agreements, then he would possibly have codenames and other information that he could provide to key leaders in the U.S. Congress and Senate that could identify the reverse engineering programs. Literally, Eric Davis could be an incredibly important person due to this briefing — perhaps equally as important as Admiral Wilson.
  2. B) REASON — Why would they brief Eric Davis on such a UFO program or read him in? Part of it could be that he was an extremely competent scientist that was deemed trustworthy and happened to be working on a UFO program himself (working for Hal Puthoff who was a subcontractor for AATIP). However, it seems to me that his experience with Adm. Wilson probably played a role in their decision making process. The knowledge he gained from Wilson could have been a key that unlocked this door. But there could have been other sources of knowledge that we don’t know about that also helped.
  3. C) PROGRESS — This individual told Eric Davis that one reason they were shut down was because of a lack of progress in figuring out the ET technology. I find this plausible if their program only had access to one or a few recovered ET craft that utilized sophisticated meta-materials. One idea that has circulated around the internet is that some UFOs utilize hulls composed of precisely engineered layers of different elements and isotopes that work to manipulate the Zero Point Energy field and fluctuations to control gravity, perhaps by the production of what’s called “negative energy.” An example of “negative energy” is the zone of reduced density of virtual particles and virtual fluctuations between the two plates of a Casimir Cavity. The science of Casimir Cavity design is extremely complex and involves a great deal of material science, including issues such as engineering materials with a desired reflectivity, optical transparency, plasmonic devices on the surface of the plates (surface plasmons or electron waves dominate the Casimir Effect at short distances), and a host of other factors. Today it’s possible the SAPs have had some progress replicating such a craft. Thirty, forty, or fifty years ago it could have been impossible. Now, with our advanced lithography technology and understanding of meta-materials it could be possible.

There are a couple of other possibilities, though. Since we know from Eric Davis and other sources that there have been multiple crash recoveries, it makes sense that they utilized different propulsion systems (all manipulating the vacuum to control inertia/gravity in a different way). For example, “coherent matter” (or matter in which all the atoms share the same phase and have the same energy and thus become more like a Bose Einstein Condensate) is thought to interact “coherently” exchanging energy and momentum. One way of producing coherent matter is to produce a self organized plasma that can develop a layer or membrane of electrons on the surface that exist as coherent matter. If one or more UFOs that were recovered utilized an internal reactor that produced a self organized plasma, this may have given OTHER Special Access Programs or even completely private programs with ZERO funding from the DoD the knowledge to build craft like the Fluxliner Alien Reproduction Vehicle.

The Fluxliner Alien Reproduction Vehicle or ARV was a craft allegedly witnessed by Bradford Sorensen, a friend of the late Mark McCandlish, at Lockheed’s big hanger in the 1980s. To learn all the details, check out the awesome documentary, “Zero Point: The Fluxliner ARV” documentary on YouTube which was made by a film student named James Higgens. At the Lockheed hanger, Bradford Sorensen saw three different sizes of Fluxliners while a general talked about them and a video played of a craft in operation. Eventually, Mark McCandlish formed a very loose group that investigated the claims of Bradford Sorensen and looked for additional verification. Although perhaps no absolute proof was found, Mark McCandlish found additional witnesses who had seen the Fluxliner and similar craft in other circumstances. He also learned from alleged insiders that one component of the craft’s propulsion system was a central column with a self organized plasma of mercury vapor, allegedly the specific isotope Mercury 199. This isotope seems likely to have been ideal for a number of reasons, including it being a single isotope and having a one half integer spin which would eliminate any quadrapolar moment (which would shorten the spin relaxation time). If Brad Sorensen and Mark McCandlish’s other witnesses are being truthful and the Fluxliner utilizes such a self organized plasma, the coherent matter layer may have a greater impact on the ZPE fluctuations or the superfluidic aether than ordinary matter and a “warp field” around the craft could have been produced.

I find it likely that even before metamaterials (except perhaps Barium Strontinum Titanate which was around during that time and may be considered a very early form of meta-material due to its nonlinear characteristics and extremely high k factor) would have been understood, aerospace companies may have harnessed self organized plasmas to mimic the field configuration of UFOs. If so, the vice president of Lockheed who read in Eric Davis may not have been aware of other programs with craft utilizing coherent matter technology. Another possibility is that he was aware, but didn’t want to tell Eric Davis because he didn’t even consider it related to his specific program.

Just because this individual told Eric Davis that there had been very little progress doesn’t mean there wasn’t. He could be omitting information intentionally or unintentionally.

Eric Davis may or may not have been allowed to see any ET hardware, vehicles, or bodies when he was read into the Lockheed UFO reverse engineering SAP, but the irrefutable knowledge he gained that such a program existed was priceless. He discovered not only that are we not alone in the universe and that ETs are visiting our planet, but that we have a significant number of their vehicles. 

Each of these represents a “get out of the fossil fuel age free” card. From a single ET device a company could discover electronic components, new materials, circuit designs, and perhaps even stores of information. Possessing entire vehicles takes this to another level! This is especially true if there were survivors that the government interacted with and learned from.

Moreover, if there really were landing events — such as the Holloman Air Force Base landing in which some sort of diplomatic negotiation or an exchange program took place — the significance climbs exponentially. Knowing that Eric Davis brought up such landings in both the Alien Autopsy Email Chain document, we should listen carefully for anything he has to say on the matter. 

Grant Cameron has also indicated that in the past, individuals from NIDS were extremely interested in the Holloman AFB Landing, and he provided them with information that he had collected. What does Eric Davis know today about these landings? Interestingly, he has commented by saying that there have been recoveries of both crashed and landed craft. If the Holloman AFB Landing happened, could the ETs have given the United States military one or more vehicles? Did he ask any questions about this to the vice president of Lockheed who read him into the crash recovery program? 

Here are the various statements from different interviews in which Davis discusses being “read in” by his friend who was the vice president of Lockheed. Please note that if you take all of his statements as factual, there’s only one story that is revealed if you put them together: he really was read into a Lockheed reverse engineering SAP.

Coast to Coast AM with George Knapp:

Quote #1: I also know that a retired vice president of Lockheed Martin himself, he and his family, had a UFO encounter on the coast of California and the craft they saw was a bit of a modified version of a TicTac in that it came to almost a point on one end and it had an unusual light pattern. And this guy had came up through Lockheed Martin working for Ben Rich at Skunkworks and he told me that he knows all the advanced secretive aircraft and UAVs that are developed by China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea and all of the American ally nations as well as non-aligned nations that are not our adversaries. And he said he knows what through intelligence information he gets briefed on what the aircraft configurations and performances are, how they are lit up and etc, etc and he said that this thing he and his family saw looked nothing like it. It absolutely behaved and flew in the sky like nothing he had ever seen before and he came up through Skunkworks working for Kelly Johnson, I’m sorry, Ben Rich, I’m sorry, it was Ben Rich. And so that is an example of the variety of shapes and if you look at..”

Quote #2: And they have not been investigated to my knowledge. I’m sorry, they have not been revealed or published, to my knowledge. So, without knowing that that’s the case, I won’t talk about it any further. But we have crash retrievals and they’ve been analyzed and unfortunately, our laboratory diagnostic technologies and our material sciences and the understanding of physics that we had, were not advanced enough to be able to make heads or tails of what it is, what they had their hands on. The customer, being a certain government agency, decided to just pull the plug on funding so that was the end of it.

Eric Davis interviewed by Erica Lukes Available on YouTube

“They can deny it. They can stop it in their tracks because they have religious prejudices against UFOs and they simply… One three star Air Force general told somebody I know at a major legacy aerospace corporation once on this particular topic and it has nothing to do with BAAS or the AATIP program this is a historical program dating back to the 80s and he basically told this vice president patriotic Americans don’t want to have anything to do with demonic technology or satan because that’s going to lead to their downfall. You know patriotic Americans want to stay away from the Devil.”

Eric Davis interviewed on Open Minds with Alejandro Rohas.

Quote #1: 

So, it takes a lot of hard tracking and digging after networking and it can take years and years and years. And then you develop the security clearances and then the authorization for need to know that appropriately allow you access to that information. Then you find out, “Hey, yeah. It’s there, it’s true.” On the other hand, sometimes the information does come out on its own but it doesn’t come out in the way that UFOlogy likes to fantasize about it. It comes out only to specific people who have specific talents and skills, who have security clearances. They may not have the need to know, but they could have the need to know if they were presented with that requirement or if they were presented by a crash retrieval program and saying, “Hey, I want to bring in gentlemen X, Y, Z. He’s got the security clearances, but he doesn’t have the need to know and I want to give him the need to know because I need his talent to help us solve this problem with the crash retrieval reverse engineering studies. So then they will do that. That’s the official way of doing it. That’s how you officially get brought in.

The other unofficial way is…you gain, you build a level of trust among certain individuals, and people within the network who, after a few years of knowing them, you work with them, they know who you are, they know what you’re capable of, they know your competencies. And they want to bring the topic up on an informal basis with you.Sometimes not even on an informal basis, they may wanna bring the topic up outside the realm of the security apparatus but, within a SCIF. In other words, there’s going to be no passing of security clearances to establish that I am going to be allowed to be read in on the crash approval program but they’ll bring me into a SCIF and want to talk informally in the SCIF about it. And say, “Well, this is what we can tell you but there’s things that we can’t tell you. And we can tell you those things if you can get the next level security and authorization to get the need to know and then we can do business with you.” But before we get to that point, here’s what we can tell you without having to cross that red line of the need to know and the proper clearances.

So you work this stuff out over a number of years, you build networks, and you find the right people. And you don’t do it by knocking on doors, you do it just through the happenstance of having a contract with somebody or a subcontract. And you’re interfacing with them. And then, lo and behold, you find out they’re the vice president or the president of one of the legacy aerospace corporations and they happen to be a PhD of a STEM discipline all on their own accord. And it just so happens that they were a guy that worked on the crash retrieval program. Oh, lo and behold! And then they find out that you’re working the UFO subject for a DoD program. And they’ll say, “Oh, that’s wonderful! You’re officially a government contractor or subcontractor. And you’re working with another aerospace company. Okay, well you’re working on UFOs? Well guess what? We did it too! And we don’t do it now but we did it in the past and here’s what we can tell you, off the record, and here’s what we can’t. And you’ll have to go another step before we can tell you what it is on the record. But it has to be through that, again, you have to have the right clearances, you have to have the authorization for the need to know and then you can get the full story.”

Quote #2: 

So here’s the thing that you should know…is that the crash retrieval program is [a] very small program. It is not a massive, huge government infrastructures. It’s a it’s a very poorly-funded program and it hasn’t actually, probably hasn’t had any money for a while. I do know that the program was terminated in 1989 for lack of progress in reverse engineering, anything that they had, any of the hardware that they had. And they’ll resurrect it every, maybe so often, so many years go by and they’ll try it again. And they just don’t succeed because compartmentalization is a killer. Scientists cannot communicate with other scientists to get help.

Quote #3:

Yeah. And this isn’t just unique to the crash retrieval program. This type of problem is unique to all the black programs that the DoD has. DHS has them. The military service branches has them. The Department of Energy has their own version. The purpose of a black program with a special access program security wrap is you gotta limit the information and exposure to the information, to as few people as possible in order to produce the maximum security protection against espionage by the enemy. And so that limits who you can work with that, that also is cleared to know. That limits the amount of experts that you can have working with you. And gosh, if your small group of experts are stumped, you’re screwed, because you basically can’t call your buddies or somebody you know, or somebody you know of, who’s an expert better than you or a bigger expert on the subject, at a university, either near you or at a university across the country. You can’t call those guys, you can’t even read them in because you’re not supposed to acknowledge some of these black…most of these black programs are not supposed to be acknowledged.

So, for that basis, you don’t legitimately exist so you can’t tip off the university expert that there’s a program, by calling him and saying I’m stuck on something, you just can’t do it. If it’s really dire and it’s a problem that really, the expertise is desperately needed outside of the cleared group, then the program manager and the security officer will write a justification to go reach out to the university expert and read him in on the program and they’ll have to be given security clearances and sign the NDA and fill out the SF-86 and all those forms and get the DD 254 filled out. And then they’ll be told, you die with this information. You can never talk about it until after you die. (laughs) Till after you’re dead.

Quote #4:

So that’s how that works. And it happens in cruise missile programs, it happens mostly in programs involving covert, clandestine operations and their logistics. It happens with nuclear weapons development and deployment. It happens with intelligence operations and it happens with technology development. And the interesting thing is that today, there’s a big move away from Special Access Programs. They’re extremely costly to maintain. Extremely costly. Let me tell you this: The cost to maintain information, personnel and physical security for special access program can be tens of times larger than the cost of the program itself. So let’s say the program is building the B-2 bomber, right? Let’s just assume, let’s say for the sake of argument, that the bomber project is $50 billion total. That’s probably not even reasonable. The security for that is going to be, could be as much as ten times higher. I mean, it could be. Stretched out over a number of years, of course, not all at once. So it could be as much as ten times higher because you’ve gotta maintain all kinds of security. Now that’s a hypothetical.

The Benevolent Collaborator

After having a range of experiences that seem to have given him insider knowledge of not only crash recoveries, possible landings such as at the Holloman Air Force Base, and reverse engineering programs, he recently landed a job at the Aerospace Corporation. This company, which is almost like a government agency, has deep connections with other aerospace companies like TRW, Hughes Aircraft, and others. I’m unaware of his official position at Aerospace Corporation. It’s very possible that 100% of what he does is ordinary, mundane work at least when placed beside investigating UFOs for NIDS. What I can’t get out of my mind is the possibility he took the position for a reason. By accepting the job, he was gagged from giving interviews or talking about UFO related issues. Since he obviously enjoys discussing UFO related issues, why would accept such a position when he’d be restricted from doing what he loves?

The only possibility I can come up with is that by going to work for Aerospace Corporation there is a chance he could have also gained an unofficial position or job doing reverse engineering work. Or, if not working on actual ET hardware, perhaps he is involved in development of space technology that can be used to monitor both UFOs and foreign adversaries. Could he be processing data from satellites to look for fastwalkers? I also can’t help but think about The Zodiac Project or “Zodiac.”

Multiple sources, including the fictionalized story written by an individual using the pseudonym “Greg Halifax” for UFO Magazine, speak of a UFO program called Zodiac or “The Zodiac Project.” This project was even mentioned in the Alien Autopsy Email Chain document. Hal Puthoff asked Kit Green if he had read the story and if he had heard of the project. Interestingly, Kit Green’s answer was “snipped” away (not included) and only a different question was answered. Recently, Lue Elizondo has admitted to being aware of Zodiac, but has refused to comment.

In the EWD Notes, Eric Davis mentions a woman named Mary Elizabeth Elliot that had some kind of issue with the aerospace corporation TRW and had an attorney named Jeffrey W. Griffith. Interestingly, Aerospace Corporation has connections to TRW. The history is fascinating and can be found with a quick search. Could it be that Aerospace Corporation had a UFO reverse engineering program? If so, could Eric Davis have gotten a job with them to try and gain access to that program? By now any such program could have a completely different name, but it might still be around. Being able to actually see, touch, and explore an ET craft and possibly even “humanoids” might well be something that could make Eric Davis accept the restrictions placed on him by Aerospace Corporation.

Let me be clear. I do not know if such a program exists or if Eric Davis is working for it. What I do think is that factoring in his life experiences, encounters with people like Adm. Wilson that confirmed the reality of crash recovery programs, and his career history with NIDS/Earthtech, he would have probably looked for a job with connection to the UFO subject. After you know that there are ETs flying in our skies manipulating the most fundamental forces of nature, working on even the most advanced jet fighter or satellite system might seem a little dull.

Regardless if Eric Davis is currently involved in a reverse engineering program or not, he’s collaborating with the forces that wish to maintain the atrocity that is the UFO cover up. By not going public and sharing the details of his knowledge of the greatest lie ever told (NOT GENERALITIES LIKE CRASHED HAPPENED BUT ACTIONABLE DETAILS WITH PROGRAM MANAGER NAMES, PROJECT CODE NAMES, DETAILS FROM MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE LIKE ADM. WILSON) he is prolonging the deception. I believe this is fundamentally wrong. 

The information being withheld is not only the right of every sentient being, but its concealment is also preventing the broad adoption of technologies that could reduce human suffering, allow humanity to overcome the challenges facing us, and take humanity to the stars. At the same time, after everything I have read and listened to, I believe that he isn’t collaborating maliciously, but benevolently.

Eric W. Davis is opposed to the UFO cover up. This is undeniable. He has shared significant information online with the UFO community, pushing as close to the line of leaking classified information without stepping over. If you listen to his interviews, he has tried to convey everything he can to let the world know that crash recoveries have occurred. He has reasons for not giving out the ACTIONABLE details that could be used to push disclosure forward rapidly: he has a career, he has a family, he has a security clearance. He has worked hard to support and build all of these three things. If he spills all the beans, he could lose his highly coveted, hard to get security clearance, lose his job, and therefore be less able to provide for his family. In the absolute worst case, there could be legal repercussions. Additionally, people have told him things in absolute confidence in which they likely made him give them a personal promise in addition to or instead of signing a piece of paper. As an ethical individual of a high quality of character, he’d think extremely hard before breaking such a confidence.

Attempting to put myself in his situation, I can imagine that he may think that by temporarily collaborating, holding back the actionable information (at least from the public because we don’t know what he has said to key congressmen, senators, investigators, and military leadership) he could work for disclosure from the inside out. Perhaps he thinks that he can influence the programs and organizations hoarding UFO evidence to do the right thing and share what they know with the world. Even if being new to the program he may not have that influence from the start, he could potentially acquire it over time. 

I could also see Davis hoping that Lue Elizondo’s efforts to establish a permanent UFO office, convince the Inspector General to investigate the SAPs with UFO hardware, and to increase transparency could lead to a situation in which he might act as a liaison between one or more corporate SAPs and the DoD. He has all the qualifications for such a position including the military background, intelligence training, scientific proficiency in related areas (warp drive physics, zero point energy, etc), and has already had meetings with congressional staff. Although I would really like to see Hal Puthoff involved, I cannot think of anyone better to stand in the gap to facilitate cooperation between a permanent UFO office and the private corporations hoarding the hardware.

I don’t think the above scenario is extremely likely, though. I honestly don’t believe these private corporations and perhaps associated organizations like MJ-12 will cooperate. They have nothing to gain financially from disclosing the fact they participated in the greatest deception in human history. As soon as they share the ET hardware (even if they don’t show off their own anti-gravity craft) there will be a global race to build anti-gravity craft simply because every nation and corporation in the world will know it’s possible. Manipulating the fundamental forces of the universe and extracting energy from the vacuum would no longer be science fiction but hard reality. 

The secret that I firmly believe these SAPs wish to suppress more than anything else is that although the meta-material based craft may be more challenging to replicate, there are designs that are relatively EASY to build. Utilizing self organizing plasmas with coherent matter layers that can interact with the vacuum (acting as the universal clutch described by Kenneth Radford Shoulders) any country would be capable of building craft that could both tap energy from the vacuum and warp space. 

In a short time period, all the US corporations such as Lockheed would become irrelevant. No longer could they make incremental improvements in jet fighters, satellites, or stealth technologies and earn billions of dollars. Instead, they’d have to compete with hundreds of other companies building vehicles that would rival those from the varied works of science fiction. Bus sized vehicles capable of going to Mars in hours could become the norm and every aspect of human civilization would change.

Why do I think there are configurations for anti-gravity vehicles that would be relatively easy to build? I believe this primarily for two reasons: the evidence for the Fluxliner ARV and the work of Kenneth Radford Shoulders among other inventors such as Eugene Podkletnov who have produced devices that can manipulate gravity. 

In short, Kenneth Shoulders was a successful inventor and engineer who in the 1980s decided to find a truly exotic project to work on. He decided to work on electrical discharges and teamed up with Hal Puthoff and Bill Church of Church’s Fried Chicken who provided the funding. It turned out that when he pulsed a sharped cathode with electricity, the sudden out-of-equilibrium, non-linear conditions would induce the formation of a self organized structure out of the ions, electrons, neutral particles, and metal vapor from the destruction of the sharp tip. 

This structure had surprising properties. A couple of the most important was its ability to act as a miniature warp drive. These toruses or spheroids could capture matter and accelerate it for very low energy because they were somehow producing a field that negated their mass and inertia. He built many devices (they were very small) producing micron sized “Exotic Vacuum Objects” that could be slammed into an anode resulting in a release of anomalous energy. The story is long and fascinating, but suffice it to say he had some sort of falling out with Earthtech while maintaining friendships with people like Hal Puthoff. 

Many years later, Eric Davis wrote a paper for Edwards Air Force Base Research Laboratory about ball lightning, titled, “The Ball Lightning Study.” In this study, he discussed many different aspects of ball lightning and proposed a program to reproduce a classic Kenneth Shoulders EVO generator. Although we have no official confirmation that such a program ever took place, the late Mark McCandlish received word from a scientist friend who visited the AFRL and was shown the device. He was told that it produced small amounts of energy that were anomalous but they didn’t know how to scale it up. Mark McCandlish asserted that he discovered that before Eric Davis could write a report on the program, it was classified. 

Interestingly, Hal Puthoff and Eric Davis are both consultants to, “The SAFIRE Project” a Canadian company that has built a reactor that produces a self organizing plasma that wraps around a central anode between two cathodes. Long story short, it produces huge amounts of excess energy and other anomalies such as transmutations that are found on the surface of the anode that extend all the way to the center of the sphere. Moreover, they’ve used a company that a consultant from Lockheed Martin suggested and this company confirmed the transmutations they detected. 

In regards to how this technology could relate to gravity control, the director of The SAFIRE Project Monty Childs has made a statement that they believe they are detecting the shielding of matter from gravity between the double layers of their plasma. This would make perfect sense if the double layer when it collapsed close to the anode was creating a form of “coherent matter” that would block zero point fluctuations. 

Thus, Eric Davis would already have unique knowledge of a breakthrough energy and possibly a gravity control technology that he could utilize while studying ET hardware if he were given the opportunity by one of the SAPs. He would not be a random scientist with nothing to contribute. With his knowledge of Zero Point Energy and EVOs, he could help them understand the various types of craft that had been recovered and how they are able to propel themselves. 

Here is a post from Kenneth Shoulders in response to Jack Sarfatti about how EVOs act like miniature flying saucers. 

These mesoscopic EVOs are tiny “flying saucers” with warp drive in some cases, i.e. observed anomalous self-acceleration.

A typical EVO charge cluster is 10^-4 cm across with a total charge of Ne where N ~ 10^11.

Exactly how the vacuum coherence ~ Tr(K) is tweaked is not clear yet in this phenomenon, but that it is so tweaked is the only plausible explanation for the observed facts.

One way to test this EVO hypothesis is to look for an anti-gravity blue shift of a sharp spectral line of a quantum jump in the interior of the EVO if the zero point pressure is negative or a gravity red shift if the zero point pressure is positive since the effective short-range G* >> G here.


Yet not all of the consequences of disclosure are technological. Humanity would learn that we are not the only sentient life in the universe. Conversely, we would learn that we’re one species of small fish in a vast ocean of larger creatures including octopus, sharks, stingrays, jellyfish, turtles, dolphins, seals, and more. The mindset that makes humanity war against each other, inducing tragic human suffering and wasting resources, would change leading to a different planet. Again, this wouldn’t be good for corporations that make their fortunes selling weapons and tools for warfare

If we want disclosure, true patriots like Admiral Wilson, Eric W. Davis, Lue Elizondo, and multitudes of others with critical, actionable information that could identify and expose the reverse engineering programs must come forward publicly and share what they know. The idea of working within the system or playing nice with the corporations and parties that have maintained this cover up isn’t realistic. As a permanent UAP investigative office is established, these parties will bury the programs deeper, shred the last of the paper documents that explain the long history of suppression, incinerate the extraterrestrial bodies, delete electronic databases, and erase all the evidence that their programs existed. 

This erasure of history would be virtually as tragic as the UFO cover up itself has been. Yet I fear it’s likely if people with actionable, useful information go for a slow drip feed disclosure in order to play by the rules. The UFO cover up sure hasn’t abided by the law, the spirit of the law, or even basic democratic principles. By suppressing the truth they set themselves up as the controllers of humanity. They’ve kept the world ignorant about the reality of multiple forms of other intelligences, extraterrestrial life, the exotic technologies that could save humanity from a bleak future, and even spiritual truths about our immortal soul that exists forever. They’re the bad guys. They’re the villains. 

What we need right now are for benevolent good guys with hearts that care about the future of humanity to share what they know, immediately. They should take a little time to work on the most effective way to do so, but they shouldn’t wait until nearly mythical congressional hearings happen or corporations like Lockheed suddenly recognize the error of their ways and report everything they know to the UAP Task Force. If these organizations have kept their secrets for seventy plus years, they have a huge amount of inertia and there is very little chance they’ll stop willingly. 

Every congressman, every senator, every military leader, and every citizen of the United States of America needs to hear the truth simultaneously. Only when the CORE SECRETS are put out there INDUCING FAILURE of these programs that have operated for decades in secret without oversight will disclosure happen. It’s going to take such a revelation for politicians who care far more about their career and getting re-elected to raise their voice and start publicly making demands of these corporations to share everything they know.

Disclosure is not a process. A thousand additional videos of UAPs spotted by well trained pilots won’t do anything but increase the amount of chatter online and perhaps convince a few more journalists to start discussing the issue. Only the revelation of crashed or landed intact craft with non-human bodies or survivors will end the cover up. Once freedom-loving individuals who believe that the government is supposed to serve the people instead of serving as the Ministry of Truth take the leap, share what they know, and force the government to admit to such incidents, then disclosure will happen. 

Until then, the debate won’t ever get settled and debunkers will continue making phony arguments. As soon as the truth about crash recoveries is revealed, all of this will change. One intact vehicle along with the exotic materials it was composed of, the devices it contained, and the occupants that were found will induce a global paradigm shift. This irrefutable evidence will wake people up to the fact that multiple forms of non-human intelligence are visiting our planet, the science of engineering the vacuum allows for real life technologies that rival the wildest science fiction, and that we live in a vibrant universe that is worth exploring and discovering. 

Moreover, this will prevent the citizens of the US and other countries from paying repeatedly to obtain the same answers. Although the crash recovery and reverse engineering programs have certainly not figured out everything, they have learned a lot. With billion dollar budgets and nearly eighty years, there are encyclopedias of information they could share with us. These answers shouldn’t be suppressed simply because the fact these programs existed is embarrassing to the military or the corporations. The truth needs to come out, now. If various agencies have to issue repeated apologies for their part in this massive cover up, so be it. What matters is that the deception ends and the full history is revealed. 

Everyone with insider knowledge has a choice to make. There are basically two options. 

  1. Work from the inside out to expose the cover up, supporting the drip feed while over the next ten to twenty years the entire history of the UFO crash recoveries, reverse engineering programs, landings, and potentially even exchange programs and diplomatic negotiations are erased – lost to the ages to protect the image and reputation of various agencies and corporations. This doesn’t result in full disclosure but a twisted, spun and politicized version that best suits the interests of those in power. 
  2. Share what they know openly with the world to force UFO disclosure. This is riskier but there are ways to mitigate it, such as having multiple insiders coming out at once. Importantly, this choice exposes forever the reality of the crash recovery programs, the corporations and agencies involved, the identities of those who worked for them, and the answers that were obtained. However, it is riskier when it comes to maintaining security clearances. 

But I do believe this is worth it. Thousands of soldiers in recent years have sacrificed their lives for absolutely nothing. A great example is how Afghanistan is now falling apart after countless soldiers sacrificed their emotional welfare, physical health, and even lives fighting in that country. 

Exposing the UFO cover up would be a cause a million times as significant as some meaningless war in the desert. If an insider did face severe consequences for exposing the greatest lie ever told, he would at least be able to know that his sacrifice was worth something: unlike soldiers right now in their graves or in military hospitals attempting to learn how to walk again. He or she would have made a truly patriotic sacrifice for the ultimate of causes. A peaceful, non-violent, and ethical revelation of truth isn’t treason but equal to Rosa Parks’ act of refusing to give up her seat on the bus. We need heroes to emerge that will stand up and state, “the government may not share what they know, the corporations may not share what they know, but I cannot live with myself if I participate in the UFO cover up, so in the name of democracy and the constitution, I will share what I know.”

The first choice is the easiest. I can understand why many may take it: people want to protect their careers, their income, their lifestyle, and their families (which they may not be able to provide for if they lost their job). I can also fathom why retired seniors may make this choice. They’ve worked hard for a lifetime and simply don’t want to rock the boat. Yet this issue is so fundamentally important to humanity that I believe there must be a few insiders that recognize their duty to expose the programs and organizations that have lied to everyone – including elected officials, senior military leadership, and the citizens of the United States and the world – for nearly eighty years. Although a harder decision to make due to the serious risks involved, for a patriot who believes that tiny groups of powerful people in corporations shouldn’t make decisions for all humanity, I think the decision that should be made is obvious. 

I cannot think of a more fascinating, exciting, yet insanely frustrating adventure than the one Eric W. Davis has been on for the past thirty years or longer. He’s fought for truth his entire life: the truth about UFOs, the truth about physics, the truth about the programs managing the cover up. Along the way, he received some answers, and because the EWD document leaked we’ve received a few of them. I’m certain that the patriot and scientist in him battles the concerns of legal consequences, career, and family every day of his life. My impression is that he’s the kind of person who would like to do everything for everybody, yet he is restrained by the practicalities of life and the bureaucracy the cover up has created. Regardless as to what future decisions he makes, we all owe him for his efforts and openness so far.

My dream is for him to tell his story, all of it, in whole, as soon as possible. I don’t know if this will happen, but it needs to. One brave soul with his level of knowledge going on the record would force UFO disclosure, if the corporations liked it or not. Yet it could also serve as a catalyst, inspiring others to share what they know creating a domino effect. A chorus of witnesses and insiders destroying the fake reality painted by the government ever since Roswell and revealing a new reality, the actual reality that has always existed. The very act of such individuals putting humanity’s interest first and cooperating together, coherently, would be an everlasting reminder of the dawning of a new age.


26 thoughts on “Special Interview on Davis-Wilson

  1. Mike Drake

    I’m by far the lesser of the great minds who think alike in this equation, but ironically last week I put this exact idea on a forensic linguistics group on Facebook. I posted a page from the EWD notes, a page from the alien autopsy email written by Davis, and page of Davis’ academic writings. I then took a deep breath and explained the situation and asked if anyone with a linguistic background was willing to look at the docs and give an option on the authorship.

    I got 2 likes and no responses.

    We discussed this idea in the EWD brain trust thread in your forums last week as well.

  2. Rosanne Losee

    Comprehensive. Brilliant analysis. World changing. Hopeful. and Demanding, as it should be.

    They need to get off their duffs and do something to change this embargo against the truth. Anonymous does a brilliant job of it, and many thanks to him/her!

    It is incredible to me that people in high positions of power in the military believe that demons are using vehicles that are playing havoc with gravity and going at supersonic speeds of light. If real demons want to mess up people’s minds and hearts and souls, they can do it without all that fuss and bother.

    Those guys need to get out of the way and let the realists take over the job; the religious are just holding it back.

    If revelation gives us a new spiritual outlook on life, death and the universe, then let it happen! It is our destiny instead of all the warring going on which appears to be mankind’s first choice for amusement.

    We need to get to the stars and beyond; and we need to get the Truth. Not shades of it, or slices of it, or teasers of it, but all of it. We are adults, we can handle the Truth.

    1. J-Rod

      @Rosanne I enjoyed reading your comment. But getting to the stars and beyond….not in a multitude of lifetimes. LOL. And Religion’s got nothing to do with it. It’s all a convenient excuse to continue the dirty work.

  3. Andromeda107

    Thanks for sharing Richard, great show.It would be awesome if these scientists came forward and shared what they know , but most of them are to scared and they don’t want to lose access to those above top secret black budget programs. Also can you share with me the website or link to the alien autopsy email thread?

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      Hi there, I don’t have the link, but it’s right here on this site, dated around June 2019. That’s when all of these things went up and were linked. Undoubtedly they are linked elsewhere on the web.

  4. Ted2

    The Davis-Wilson document provides an unofficial statement from a high-ranking US military source that a private firm that has possession of at least one UFO or parts thereof. In a way, it helps corroborate the many stories of UFO crash retrievals in the U.S. possibly dating back to 1941. The problem is that neither the author of that statement nor the person that recorded it will never vouch for its authenticity.

    As UFO advocates, it is an important confirmation of a long-held belief about one part of the UFO story. Beyond that, we have a wealth of similar statements/stories provided to competent researchers like Stringfield (many over three decades ago). Without those, we would have no idea that crash retrievals had ever occurred or the possible amount of them.

    We have also learned enough to realize that most of that material are probably now in the hands of private firms. We don’t know what benefits society could have or what those firms have realized from investigating the UFO material they possess. I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion that the possession of those items by private firms is horribly wrong.

    You all have made a great case supporting the veracity of the document and you can use that information to fight off the naysayer and debunkers. But, beyond that, what do we have in this case, and all the others collected by past researchers, that we can use moving forward?

  5. Ron Holmes UK

    I never turn you off Rich, but this Mr X thing…
    I turned it off.
    I apologize and will catch you on the next one…

    1. J-Rod

      @Ron Why did you turn it off? Richard said Mr. X is a friend of his and has had discussions with him. Bit of a slap in the face dude.

  6. Clifford Ribaudo

    Well this one got a bit far into the weeds for me. Whilst listening to it (I did listen to most of it) and getting a little frustrated and dejected with the the continual coverup and obfuscations that get people like you twisting in the wind parsing sentences and commas…. lol go for it if you like it … I found myself taking solace in the thought that they can only hide this for so long. Sooner or later our understanding of theoretical Physics (the out in the open parts that academics in academic land have access to) will make all their machinations and hiding irrelevant. Pffff.

    The academic Physicists got distracted for a few decades with “multiverses” and “dark matter” but are starting to wake up to the wank that that is. In this vein you might like to read a very readable book by the physicist Wolfgang Smith: “Physics & Vertical Causation”. He is really onto something and people like him give me hope that we are not too far off from the next “big bang” in physics. He DOES understand physics and the entanglement between the physical world, Consciousness and the laws of nature, in the same way that many occultists and Yogis do, and I find it interesting that he did it by way of first going to Eastern thought looking for help, but then RETURNING to orthodox Christianity via his wife! His understanding of Ontology and consciousness is the real deal.

  7. Harry Harris

    Mr. X impassioned call for either Puthoff or Davis to blow the whistle kind of assumes that they know enough of what is really going on and where the good stuff is. While they obviously know what they know based on the work they have done I am not sure they know enough to really bring down the house so to speak. That may be why they stick to their guns on their security clearances. They want more access to be read into programs that are out of their reach currently. Besides you would think that the ‘Inside’ group(s) have protocols in place to cover tracks in case of a whistleblower etc. Still it is interesting that these possible unacknowledged SAP’s that may have be ongoing for decades have had no one who worked on them come out into the open to break the silence.

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      I agree with you on this. I think my good friend Mr. X overstates the influence that those men have. If they were to go public, discussing everything that has come to them, it would likely have positive impact on getting some public information out. I do think that is so. But I doubt it would be enough to fight the wall of denial by the establishment. There are still things that they have not been briefed on, I’m quite certain. There’s only so much ammunition they can bring to the battle. And it may very well not be enough, and in the meantime they would suffer severe personal and professional consequences. I’m sure that is what they think.

  8. Paul Barnes

    Mr. X fails out the starting gate on this one – it’s hard to listen to any remaining points because his analysis stumbled immediatly. The first thing he said is that the docs are real because Steven Greer and the evidence for this is… then goes on to repeat the same Greer story we’ve all heard a thousand times.

    All roads point to Greer with this story. It always circles back to Greer. I don’t get why people would mock him for fake photographs, dropping flares and charging thousands of dollars to gullible and vulnerable people, but when it comes to the W/D notes he’s suddenly the oracle of truth.

    I don’t think the content of the documents or the fact that there is no trail beyond Greer proves their validity. Everyone who repeats the story repeats the same story beats verbatim as Greer tells it in multiple interviews and lectures.

    I also think it’s a stretch to claim that “Oh OK so the NRO document that is provably false, well that part just doesn’t count as part of the W/D leak” when this doc has been used to support the validity claims of the W/D notes since the leak.

    I also notice you say you are long time friends with John Greenwalde, yet in his presentation on the notes he says to have attempted to contact you multiple times and has sent you many email messages, and has the receipts. Instead of everyone standing on their own pillar discussing their arguments to third parties, trying to pull Aha gotchas, why not come together and try to pool resources and knowledge and logic to attempt to verify just how legit these documents are?

    There’s something fishy with these documents. They remain in the “fake” box for now until someone is able to actually provide evidence above “Greer said it”. No one can say who wrote the documents, or when, and they have incorrect information in them, no official stamps or seals or classification, and all we have to believe they are true are some anonymous sources say so? Smells extremely fishy to me.

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      John and I have communicated privately of late, and I’m very glad about that. I think you are wrong if you imply that the NRO document is foundational to the rest of the story, which is what John has stated. And despite what he and others state, it’s not an obvious argument that it is fake anyway. It may be, perhaps he is correct about this, but it is not a certainty. Regardless, a reasonably careful reading of Davis’s notes themselves shows that Wilson’s journey of discovery made no reference to Greer’s document. On top of this, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting the authenticity of those notes by Davis. The NRO document argument is what used to be called a red herring. An irrelevancy.

  9. starfleet

    Richard, where did you get the notion that the reverse engineering SAP had no oversight.
    I would propose that the SAP was not overseen by Wilson, HOWEVER, as he didn’t have a need to know, it was overseen by others that DID have a need to know.
    As intelligent,respected and well connected as they are, I would also propose to you that Davis, Puthoff and friends were never read into the ultimate SAP. The real geniuses of the Program do not discuss any stories and activities to journalists , investigators or the like. The fact is, none of this cohort work at the highest security level of Corporate/ Government reverse engineering and are frustrated by that fact. They are aware of it, but not read into it. And who said that the SAP was run by Lockheed alone?

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      I mostly agree with you here, I’m quite sure that Puthoff’s circle are not in the innermost circle, I have always felt this way. Possibly Davis is today, due to his work in Aerospace Corporation. But that’s a guess. In terms of lack of oversight, what I would say is that in theory there is, but it is far removed from public accountability. In that sense I wouldn’t consider it effective oversight.

  10. J-Rod

    This was fantastic listening . Mr. X you are correct. The destruction of alien bodies and hardware will occur. Unfortunately we won’t be able to do anything about it. What a pity. I hope we get to hear more from Mr. X in future. In conclusion , we only need one person, in the “system” with a conscience and a will of integrity. Just ONE to light the fuse and not fear the explosion. And I’ll tell you one thing, it won’t be any of the “heroes” mentioned. They’ve had their time.

  11. iam080

    Thanks for a great discussion Richard and Mr X.

    With reference to the Sedge Masters story – I previously wrote that I had determined one of the names in the account is a real person, living near to Vancouver, Canada.

    Richard, can you please email me your cell number and I’ll reach out to you regarding this matter? I do understand you’re an exceptionally busy public persona and would very much respect that, as well as your privacy.



    I did not receive an email from you. (My last communication from you was May 2020.)

    My thought regarding the named individual in the Sedgewick Masters series (who flies to Vancouver) is that real life person (of same name with connection to the presumed author of the series) may be able to privately provide further insight into this matter.


      1. iam080


        In addition to the above, I think there is merit in a discussion regarding the Herbert Hoover / Consolidated Engineering Corporation (CEC) connection.

        After war-era classified computing work, CEC supplied their best computing equipment to JPL in the early 1950’s. (Recall the leaker of the PACL CARET report, ISAAC, was very likely to have been a very respected JPL engineer.)

        I’ve recently discovered another interesting connection which joins CEC with XEROX Palo Alto Research Center, XPARC. (Recall the likely author of the PACL CARET report was very likely to have been a very respected XPARC scientist.)

        Some background information here-


  12. Steven Cole

    I can’t help but find myself questioning the true agenda of some of the researchers out there, namely Greenwald. When this story came out (again lol) and I heard folk politely saying “some researchers dispute these claims”, I knew it was Greenwald instantly. Somehow it’s alwaaaaays him, going off on some loud tangent refuting any claims made , often opposing info that you personally researched. I find this troubling. After he made an ass of himself when he declared war against TTSA, then Elizondo, now this matter… he always seems to be towing the party line, so to speak. He seems to always support the pentagon/government bottom line, sometimes to the point that he winds up looking foolish. Sort of reminiscent of J Allen Hynek when he was the mouthpiece for project blue book. Sure it’s great that the guy runs his database website, but where I am at, that only implies that he has more ties and connections to the powers that be than most people realize. Maybe he just gets butt-hurt when information comes out that isn’t on his website… either way, I respectfully take his opinions with a grain of salt. When he does actual research, there are nuggets of real value, but you have to sift through his ego/disinfo campaigns to find them. Keep up the good work Richard, and thank you for providing the community with a trustworthy info source through your own vetting and hard work…

  13. Steven Cole

    Also- while I enjoyed the interview and agree with the guest, I can’t help but feel, at the end, when he makes a plea to the scientists, Elizondo, etc to come forward completely in absolute truth with their knowledge of the subject of ufo/uap, regardless of the sacrifices required in doing so… that this is rather ironic coming from a man that maintains anonymity and goes only by Mr X……..


Leave a Reply