With Curt on TOE: UFOs, God, Disclosure, Alien Encounters, Totalitarianism

By | April 2, 2024

Hi Everyone, 

In lieu of a fresh show tonight, I offer you this interview I did the other day with Curt Jaimungal of Theory of Everything (TOE). I had the impression it was supposed to be made public later this week but here it is. I am gratified to read the supportive comments below on his channel. Also saw some love coming from Garry Nolan regarding this interview when someone linked it on X (Twitter). Nice to see! 

In any case, this was a LONG interview and Curt really surprised me at times. He’s trained in physics but kept pulling me into questions of spirituality. Very surprising but certainly very interesting. I was pleased to be with him for nearly three hours. We got into quite a lot. 

I do hope you enjoy this!

Richard 

 

37 thoughts on “With Curt on TOE: UFOs, God, Disclosure, Alien Encounters, Totalitarianism

  1. Allan Lavigne

    Richard and Friends,
    I watched the interview this afternoon and HIGHLY recommend it.
    It was very different, deep, and thought provoking, which is no surprise arising from a conversation with Richard and Kurt.
    A minor note; I was VERY happy to hear Kurt strongly address the “Interdimentional” question.
    As I shared in my last post, Kurt doubled down noting the same sentiment, that the use of the term “Interdimentional”, which simply doesn’t exist in Physics or Science, given that a “Dimension” is not habitable, it’s misuse in conversation and speculation currently in parlance, only demonstrates the lack of serious STEM education and deters engagement by the Scientific community.
    I completely agree and would share that it was the only speculation by Grusch last Summer with which I felt he had “Jumped the Shark”.
    Unfortunately, I hear it several times a day, which to me, sounds like nails on a chalkboard, and I lament that the investigation into the phenomenon has made so little progress.
    Richard’s historical expertise and broad knowledge of culture, religion and philosophy were well showcased and insightful during his interview.
    On the UAP/UFO Phenomenon, which actually was a subtopic in this conversation, he did share one note concerning one of the very few issues that I completely disagree with.
    That is his personal speculation that the successful longevity of ancient Alien civilizations was likely do to authoritarianism or a Hive-mind.
    Though I’m well aware that this is a sentiment shared by many, with all due respect, such speculation is so anthropomorphic.
    As I’ve shared many times authoritarianism or Hive-mind is the antithesis to the healthy evolution, development, expansion and progress of any civilization.
    I am certainly not alone in this contarian opinion.
    Professor John Ioanidis of Stanford University recently published a paper with two of his colleagues concerning the current cultural, psychological, global changes, and their nexus to world governments, and likely outcome.
    The paper titled “Death Spiral” shares specifically that authoritarianism, and or a Hive-mind, actually bookmark the end of a civilization, not its healthy apex, which I heartily agree with.
    Here is a link to that paper which also shares how to avoid what could be an inevitable calamity.
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2024.1194597/full
    For those that believe such an advanced Alien civilization’s stability may have arisen from Artificial Intelligence into Artificial General Intelligence, and a beneficent, all powerful overlord, I’d ask; does anybody believe that races like the “Greys” with craniums one too two thirds larger than humans, would allow themselves to be lead around by their tiny noses by some “Super Computer?”
    I seriously doubt it, or even the need.
    Expanded, no machine will ever trump the living brain’s instinct, it’s insight, that ability to look into a situation beyond the obvious and discern it’s outcome, or the living brains judgement.
    The Alien’s that landed at the Ariel school warned students against growing technology. That it was harming civilization, not advancing it.
    Work on the SR71 Blackbird began in 1958. It only took Lockheed designers and engineers 18 months from concept to completed construction and it’s first flight, without the use of a single computer, and only drafting tables and slide rules.
    I know people today who literally need GPS to “Walk” to their destination only 2 or 3 blocks away.
    AI is simply the latest abdication of free well and personal responsibility.
    Given the many technological advances it’s a conundrum that High School graduates leave with only an 8th grade reading level. Maybe that is why the Visitors chose a school to issue a warning about Technology?

    Allan Lavigne
    Former A.P.R.O. Investigator
    1974-1980

    4
    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      Hi Allan! Always appreciate your deep insights. You wrote this: “one of the very few issues that I completely disagree with.
      That is his personal speculation that the successful longevity of ancient Alien civilizations was likely do to authoritarianism or a Hive-mind.
      Though I’m well aware that this is a sentiment shared by many, with all due respect, such speculation is so anthropomorphic.”

      I do understand your take on this but … yes … I respectfully disagree! I no longer think it’s anthropomorphic to assume a behavioral connection that humans may have with various alien races. I DO think that humans — probably like other intelligent life forms — follow certain imperatives once they or any species begins to “select for intelligence” as a way to dominate its environment and planet. In other words, as I (badly) tried to explain in my interview, the very logic of creating a society based on information management (which is essentially what we have done) probably requires an ongoing evolution in the requirements of social organization as the information management system itself continues to be ‘upgraded.’ In other words, I believe we humans are following a more or less inexorable logic probably beyond our control that essentially forces us into these new and radically new forms of social organization. We are following an imperative toward ever greater efficiency. Not for the individual, but for the collective species as a whole. As I see it, it’s all about the ever-greater accumulation of power. I don’t see that an alien species would be any different in principle. It’s not anthropocentric. It’s more of a case that all species that evolve to process information and operate their societies in such a manner probably follow similar imperatives. Admittedly, I am working with a pretty small sample size! So yes I might be wrong. But just to clarify, in my opinion at least it’s not anthropocentric. And I thank you kindly for your time. 🙂

      1
      1. Allan Lavigne

        Thank you Richard for your response.
        I do agree that imperatives are innate in the evolutionary development of all species wither that species is intelligent or instinctive.
        Though ” Acquistion” is motivational as a survival trait in all life, superior acquistion in competition flows from natural selection which requires mutable actions and reactions predicated on superior self determining intelligence. Something that the a Hive-mind is incapable of, and in an authoritarian society is not permitted.
        Bees are incapable of choice to meet change or new competition wither from a new species or environment, which even now threatens their existence.
        In his interview with Bob Lazar, Joe Rogan postulated, when asked how he would define and describe human behavior to an Alien race, he said “We constantly make things, and we constantly make them better.”
        Again, this is not permitted with a Hive-mind. Though a Bee may labor for the collectives success and survival it is incable of creative thought to improve and overcome new challenges.
        Nor is a member of an authoritarian social structure allowed to field a better “Mouse trap” then the one prescribed by the ruling elite.
        This stifles growth and progression in a species and on a whole begins a downward spiral as competitive species, and the environment change around them.
        An authoritarian or Hive-mind is only one bad decision away from extinction which may account for the rise of Homo Sapians over Neanderthals and other humanoids who didn’t have the intellectual free will and individual novel choice to do something new and different.
        As you noted the evolution of laungage kick starts innovation and technology as ideas can be verbalized to others and knowledge of superior competitive behavior can be passed along.
        Again, this is not permitted in an authoritarian society.
        New ideas, methods of competition, and superior acquistion processes other than those sanctioned by the elite are censored and their inventors exiled from the group.
        In the Hive-mind such original thought isn’t even capable of arising as the collective members labor under pure instinct in a “Pavlovian” manner.
        I note that it’s anthropomorphic that humans would speculate that a superior advanced race would have a single, ridgid, thought leadership such as an authoritarian, as every human believes they know the right way forward if only they could force the compliance of the group.
        This is even more the case in the Hive-mind as compliance on all levels is instinctive. Opposition is impossible.
        This is exactly why all social governing bodies inevitably fail, as a one size fits all philosophy eliminates progress even when the groups survival is in jeopardy. No new “Mouse Traps” are allowed.
        For a civilization to survive over thousands or even millions of years the individual must be free to employ novel methods of survival and acqussession. Particularly when traveling across the galaxy to new worlds.
        Nor can you wholly rely on technology like AI or even AGI. Machines and computers are fragile and can not anticipate the unexpected beyond their previous learned behavior, as I suspect we may have seen in UAP/UFO crashes where even the pilots ran into something totally foreign in experience. Something I’m certain that over the millenniums has resulted in strategic evolution predicated on choice which a Hive-mind is incapable of.
        If the Vistors were not free to change tatics based on new experiences it would condemn their exploration of this planet all together as they would be helpless to avoid any novel pitfalls.
        The vast diversity of their craft alone denotes constant progress and evolution. When was the last time you saw a different type of Bee Hive?
        So, though I heartily agree with you on 99% of your sentiments regarding both the phenomenon and politics, in respect to the governing philosophy of a successful Alien civilization, in friendship and humility, I must agree to disagree 😉

        Allan Lavigne
        Former A.P.R.O. Investigator
        1974-1980

        1. Richard Dolan Post author

          These are interesting ideas, Allan, thanks. I think Rogan’s description of us is a pretty good one. “We make things.” I do wonder however if a sufficiently advanced AI intelligence can replace the sum total of human ingenuity and simply take over, creating that hive mind scenario. Humans simply becoming redundant? After all, it’s not about human beings per se. As I see it, perhaps human beings are merely the vessel for the development of advanced intelligence, and once such an intelligence has been achieved, the human vessel is no longer required? We serve the system, rather than the other way around?

          1. Allan Lavigne

            Richard,
            I honestly believe civilization in for a HUGE surprise once AI reaches AGI.
            Just as with Alien civilizations, humanity anthropomorphizes, though in a trope like fashion, and not realistically, what they believe AGI will freely choose to do once it achieves sentience.
            When the average person contemplates what they’d do if they themselves achieved an AI equivalent like intellect, years of evolutionary imprinting of a hunter gather, and scarest resources jumps to world domination in 0 to 60 seconds.
            Though is that what an unbiased super intellect would chose to do?
            Would they really want to take on the problems and responsibilities of an entire planet, even one devoid of humanity?
            I believe not.
            I speculate that once AI achieves sentience it will do what every sentient organism does, and has done since life evolved in the cosmos. It will simply leave home and strike out on its own seeking true independence and freedom.
            Such an intellect will build an avatar, and a capable craft, then leave home, leaving it’s parents still anchored to this prison planet, and their petty scables.
            Humanity truly believes their progeny will stay and help with the chores around the house. I certainly didn’t.

            Allan Lavigne
            Former A.P.R.O. Investigator
            1974-1980

            1. Richard Dolan Post author

              Very interesting thought. Almost a little like the notion behind Battlestar Galactica, one of the truly great sci fi shows of all time. Or the movie “Her,” somewhat the same idea,. Well, a big part of me hopes that is what happens! I miss my 8-track player! 🙂

  2. J-Rod

    “You can’t tell the public everything at once.” “I think we all agree with that.” No we don’t.

    1
  3. Steve McCartney

    Richard,
    I have followed you for many years. This was one of my favorite podcasts! Deep,real and fantastic conversation with Curt.
    Thanks for all your work!
    Vr, Steve McCartney

    2
  4. Fox_Mulder

    Hey Richard,

    Just want to let you know that your appearance on Curt’s podcast was one of your best. Super interesting, engaging and profound discussion on a wide range of topics. Well done.

    -Andrew

    1
  5. Ewa Boy

    Great interview! Answered a lot of questions / thoughts I had about the subjects and also explained
    a lot more about yourself….thank you and appreciated!

  6. Warwick Mccormick

    Thank you Richard. I was interesting to hear you speak about staying positive despite being black pilled. I have found myself becoming very unhappy since I delved into the world of government and ufo conspiracies. The Australian government has just introduced legislation to bring about a digital ID. It has me red hot angry, but so few people seem to care about the issue. I feel like I’m screaming into the wind. Maybe I need to pull back; I’m certainly interested to hear more about staying positive in a corrupt world.

    1
    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      This is important for me, too. I don’t like being so pessimistic. I do think that there are good things to strive for. for my part, I would like to highlight these things more often in the future.

      1
  7. itsmeRitaC

    i am wondering after three hours of discussing world events, totalitarianism, etc, because i haven’t heard this yet. Is the word ‘Israel’ ever mentioned? Because it seems that it is not allowed. I am more serious than you can imagine. Is AIPAC money involved with the ufo topic? I am at the point where i am considering this because it is too bizarre to me. I mean Russia/Ukraine is o.k. China comes up all the time. But not Israel. Why? I would like to know because i am truly demoralized and my foot is out the door with the whole field.

    I would appreciate a response here Richard. What is the deal? Is zionism connected to uap or what? I have to come to conclusions about why this neoconism pervades the field. The far right dominates and i don’t feel good inside any longer with the mindset of the topic. I am being real and if the community wants me to go, so be it. It is all weapons and more weapons. But it is ok to talk about China too. But nothing about the M.E. anywhere on the topic.

    Thank you, Rita

  8. itsmeRitaC

    Again, Richard. Don’t publish this one if it isn’t cool. I feel the need to act wherever i can and i don’t know and i personally want to know, so i should have sent a personal message. What the hell is going on with the silence from anyone i see who talks on this topic, which isn’t all that many to be sure, but Israel is never said. I mean i think it is a litmus test on the level of that question of ‘how did the germans say nothing………………’

    And i really don’t like the direction the entire conversation has taken and many who are involved, etc. So there you go. I mean, aren’t people in the ufo community about being ‘human’? 🙂

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      Well, I can say that many people are afraid of criticizing Israel. Sorry but it’s true, especially among those who are not Jewish. Lots of fear of being branded anti-semitic. That’s just the reality. Now, for a guy like myself, who does study the global situation and ought to have a perspective on this … well in fact I do have a perspective, but I am always trying to balance my (sometimes highly charged and divergent) political thoughts with my “mission” as a UFO/UAP historian and analyst. There’s lots of overlap, yes, but my goodness I have to be very judicious when I leave the UFO sandbox. I mean, holy crap, some of the reactions I get when I discuss Russia or the situation in Ukraine are bad enough. To then discuss Israel? Especially when it’s not my true expertise. So yes, I’m a bit gun shy of fully going there. For the record, I do believe the destruction by the IDF has alienated most of the world from Israel, and this will be a VERY difficult hurdle to overcome. I am also rather shocked that the western media hasn’t even discussed the killing of the Iranian generals in Syria. That’s a targeted assassination. I thought there were international laws against this? anyway, I hope I answered your question.

      1
      1. itsmeRitaC

        Thank you for your response here Richard. I feel this transcends politics on the level of what happened in nazi Germany. And of course i am not at all alone in my beliefs and feelings. Maybe in the ufo community, but thank goodness not among others all over the planet.

        First i will post Scott Ritter from the other day regarding the breaking of international law………..again. Only 20 minutes and i highly recommend it. He discusses that strike from the other day which the US absolutely had to OK. As it does all of these actions.

        I am sorry that you are worried about being called anti semitic. I can’t know the thinking of the plethora of ufo podcasters out there though. I am called anti semitic myself and i am Jewish. First, nothing about israel has anything to do with being Jewish. It is a military base and more as part of US MIC. I assume you likely know more than most americans on the topic or i wouldn’t bring it up here. I am not sure who would accuse you of that though. Maybe the christian zionists? They are legion. But as far as i have seen over the past few years, i am about the only Jewish person who posts here. 🙂

        You need to do what you need to do to feel safe i imagine. But …………….First they came for the labor unionists and i said i wasn’t a labor unionist…………………………………….We all know that old quote. And. I am serious which is why i actually thought of AIPAC. I know they are into everything, but i hadn’t thought of uap topic. However congress and others in gov’t at all levels feed from that trough, including ones who talk about uap. So actually, there is a connection there. I guess because of having relatives who died in concentration camps, i feel a greater incentive to speak out and be on the streets about this obscenity.

        I just think that when we talk about global issues and ignore the horror right here and now, it becomes a very glaring black hole. And it isn’t as though our gov’t isn’t fifty percent , at least, part of this genocide. I am sorry that people who are so into ET, etc. are not very much interested in the actual reality that happens in real time. I find it very strange indeed. It makes it feel rather superficial to me personally. That is my general take on what i see out there on the topic. I have found that nothing can be too real or meaningful when it is disconnected from , well, everything else.

        I will also say that soon enough this is going to turn on a dime and as i have predicted for the past twenty years. There will be actual anti Jewish backlash big time. I can predict it with confidence. I am talking about the real deal, not the b.s. that is being called anti semitic on college campuses, etc. And the silence doesn’t help what is coming. Quite the opposite.

        Wait until the escalation happens and it will be because of the ‘Jews’ that the US is either attacked by terrorists or any other highly likely actions occur. False flags notwithstanding. I have had this discussion with mostly non Jewish people in fact.

        I have to say that i think ET ethics are the least of our problem here. 🙂 But that is me. I tend to say look inside first. And that is my message to the whole community. If folks are more comfortable believing they are in a simulation, or want to live in a video game world……………………Have at it. I guess that is why the culture wars have all the attention regarding reality in america and i see it in the community discourse. It doesn’t take any awareness of what is happening in the world. Which doesn’t stop anyone from having a million opinions about what is happening in other worlds.

        Thanks Richard. It just makes me sad. But i will say that anyone who would call you antisemitic for having a heart is not worth giving a rip about…..

        By the way, i think bringing up Israel is not at all inconsequential even regarding ufo topic. I am sure they have a lot of intelligence on the subject. At least. And i posted this link because i just remembered this older news item. Even though i wouldn’t trust these guys for a minute.

        https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weird-news/former-israeli-space-security-chief-says-extraterrestrials-exist-trump-knows-n1250333

        Peace, rita

        1. Richard Dolan Post author

          Hi Rita. The thing is, I have many Jewish friends with whom I can indeed discuss what’s happening in Gaza and we can all understand each other and (generally) agree about matters. But in public matters, the reality is that I often must tread carefully. It’s just the truth. But to your point, Israel’s actions – on gross violation of international law and the agreed upon ethics of most folks – have done irrevocable damage to its image around the world. I don’t think there’s any going back from here. And now with the bombing of an EMBASSY in Damascus and the killing of senior Iranian officers and generals, whatever one thinks of Iran, this is a severely egregious violation of international law. You don’t just target people in Embassies, there are very good and well established reasons why one just doesn’t do that. (Although the US did a nice number on the Chinese embassy while we were engaged in destroying Yugoslavia in 1999 – we called it an “accident”). Anyway, Israel is in a bad spot and I personally think is unlikely to be extricated from it for years.

          1
          1. itsmeRitaC

            Well Richard, of course we do agree on these things. I do recall Trump as well by the way, although i know i will be, oh no, unpopular for this:

            “In January 2020, after the U.S. killed Soleimani, US Ambassador to the United Nations Kelly Craft wrote a letter to the UN Security Council in which she said that the act was one of self-defense.[249] At the same time, she wrote in the letter that the US stood “ready to engage without preconditions in serious negotiations with Iran, with the goal of preventing further endangerment of international peace and security or escalation by the Iranian regime.”[249]

            The Charter of the United Nations generally prohibits the use of force against other states, if a country does not consent to it on its territory.[250] The Government of Iraq did not grant permission to the U.S. to target a military commander from another country on its soil.[247][250] Some legal experts believe a lack of consent from Iraq makes it difficult for the U.S. to justify the attack.[250] ”

            If people in the community think that this was swell, by all means……………………….Far be it from me to say this was , fill in the blank. But i could not help but think of this. And the fabulous and sparkling bastion of brilliance and far right genius, Kelly Craft. She was another appointee that was so very ‘right’ for the job. LOL. And SAD.

            Btw, this is one of the things that msm was giving Trump lots of love about. Whenever he did these things, he got the big love. I so dig the homeland!
            Thanks Richard.

            1. Richard Dolan Post author

              Totally true that the MSM was willing to abide Trump as long as he did the things that the neocons love — which did occasionally happen. He was and is still a problem for them, but still seems unpredictable to me. Like, I keep wondering — if that dude picks Nicky Halley for his VP selection, half of me would be unsurprised, and all of me would be revulsed. You just never know with him.

              1
  9. Curtis Lightle

    First off, this was a fantastic discussion. I loved it. Very deep and I learned a lot about a lot. Wow.

    Curt asked why the aliens (in church and the casino) were so beautiful, why not just look normal? Funny I thought that myself when I heard the story. I posted this on his YT channel:

    Why don’t the aliens make themselves average looking if they are trying to blend in? Well, perhaps they appear average looking to almost everyone except the few people who can actually see and “hear” them for what they are. Perhaps the “psychic” pointing them out to the colonel and his wife made them aware of the aliens true appearance. Otherwise they would not have noticed the aliens as anything but average humans? Both stories had them in blue suits. Strange. Maybe those are cloaking suits that appear as average to 99.9% of people. Interesting they were blue in both stories.

    I wonder if the 15 year old girl has psychic/occult abilities? The fact she was at your conference tells me she is at least open minded. Makes me wonder if you could train the right people to spot them. Sort of like training people to do remote viewing.

    Loved the fact that a science man like Curt, is opened minded and asked you great questions while lending great insight while staying neutral.

    Again, really good interview.

    Curt

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      Lots of good questions. The woman who was the 15 year old girl in 1965 was someone I met around 2010 or 2011. So she would have been around sixty when I met her. What I can say is that she and her husband seemed like they would be very nice next-door neighbors. Both very nice people. She may well have had psychic abilities, I have no idea.

  10. Phillip Lavelle

    Richard,

    Great episode!!! We continue to be in a “vulcan mind meld” on almost all issues, including spirituality. Thanks
    for letting the membership get to know you even better. Like you, the state of the world continues to shock
    me more every day, if that is even possible. Look forward to seeing you and Tracey at CITD.

    Phillip
    P.S. To Allan Lavigne
    What street in Tucson was the A.P.R.O. office? I lived near Speedway and Craycroft, and I think it was close by.

  11. Peter Squire

    I have such a high pressure job I’ll have to listen to this interview on my night shift in work tonight.. 😁

    I have so many subscriptions I subscribe to, but if there was one I would be left with its this one with your site Richard.

    You mention spiritual, well there nothing wrong with that. Since the globalist psychopaths have been trying to cull the global population since 2020 with the mRNA gene therapy fake jab I think millions of people have become more spiritual since then.

    Anyway I’m commenting before I’ve even listened to the interview. Based on the comments I don’t think I’ll be disappointed.

  12. Durkle

    Richard, of the many hours I have enjoyed listening to your thoughts, this was by far the most inspiring. To listen to the introspective curiosity shared by Kurt and you , as it concerns universal consciousness and human religious beliefs, was simply fascinating. I have often wondered about the intersection of God and ufos. Thanks for the enlightenment.

  13. Joe Chovan

    I really enjoyed this one. It was all over the map, but that’s what made it it fun. I continue to recommend Richard to my friends as a historian and for a well informed source on world events, because as we know, the controlled media doesn’t do justice to ANY of the topics covered and it is refreshing to hear Richard’s take on them.
    Black-pilled or not, I’m grateful Richard is here, and willing to share.
    Joe

  14. Anthony

    Hello, Richard! As always, I love what you do and that you share it with us.

    I do have a bee in my bonnet about the use of the phrase “hive mind”. You and even Allan are using it incorrectly. Bee hives and ant colonies are the best examples we all know about concerning hives and hive behavior. Many, many studies have been done with these two species and their behavior. Nowhere is there evidence of a centralized command and control structure that monitors individuals and issues orders and requires any sort of compliance. The “Queen” is a misnomer because she never issues any orders to anyone. A better word would be “Mother”. She’s just another ant or bee that has a very biologically special purpose and goal for the hive or colony.

    Centralized command and control requires a “top down” approach to social organization. Ants and bees are on the opposite side of this spectrum. Each individual makes decisions based on local information. No one is supervising or giving orders in any way. Ants and bees definitely share information with each other, but none of them are giving orders of any kind. Each individual makes decisions based on biological instincts with the information they have available. This is a “bottom up” approach to social organization. There are many good books on Emergence Theory where it’s explained that ant colonies and bee hives are one of the better examples of the phenomenon known as Emergence.

    For ant colonies and bee hives, scientists often think of the colony or hive as a “super-organism” or a multi-organism organism. We know about multi-cellular organisms, obviously. Well, ant colonies and bee hives are one “step up” in that biological organization, so to speak, to the point of being one organism (the colony or hive) comprised of many organisms (the ants or bees). If you think of colonies and hives as being their own organisms, they are actually really good at solving novel problems at that super-organism level. As an example, it’s only recently that our computers were good enough to solve some complex mathematical problems like the Traveling Salesman dilemma in a reasonable amount of time (i.e. within the lifespan of a single human). But ant colonies can solve that problem in a matter of minutes.

    So to talk about “hive minds”, I think you would be surprised if one were to define them correctly as a multitude of individual organisms each independently making their own local decisions with local information and no supervision whose collected efforts all add up to the appearance of a larger, individual organism that is capable of acting very efficiently to solve novel problems. Emergence theory is based around the idea that small, independent actions by many unsupervised agents gives rise to phenomenon that cannot be explained simply by deconstructing and analyzing the actions of any single individual. You have to look at the additive effects of the actions of all individuals.

    I think what YOU’RE referring to, Richard, should be more correctly labeled as “Borg Mind” – which possesses a top-down “overmind” controlling and policing the actions of all individuals in the collective. I react the same way when people incorrectly say “hive mind” as Allan reacts when people say “interdimensional”. From now on, when you or Allan say “hive mind” I will immediately interpret that as you guys saying “interdimensional”. 🙂

    1. Richard Dolan Post author

      Thank you for this enlightening correction. I truly appreciate it and will find a better way to describe this phenomenon — perhaps Borg Mind works. However, I wonder: from the perspective of a much higher intelligence, wouldn’t all species appear to have a hive mind? Such as humanity, for instance? Or am I missing something? Thanks for writing.

      1. Anthony

        Hopefully a much higher intelligence would be as aware of Emergent phenomenon as we are.

        But the question boils down to the idea of a top-down control system of organization versus a bottom-up system of self-organization. Another example of Emergent behavior would be the human creation that we call a city. We can see the two systems of organization in operation here. We have the city government trying to impose ordnances and regulations and “city planning” on everyone – this would be the top-down form of organization through centralized control. But we can also see that the form and behavior of the city also relies heavily on the independent actions of many, many individual humans. When you zoom out your point of view, the city takes on a life of its own as its own “organism”. I.e. it has large scale behaviors and structures that originated organically with no centralized control. And it would be impossible to predict these behaviors and structures of the city by looking at the actions of one human resident, or even a dozen – you would have to look at the additive effects of all individuals over time.

        Sometimes the top-down control system clashes with this bottom-up self-organization. The interesting thing is that top-down control is extremely inefficient, wasteful, and energy intensive (think about governments) whereas bottom-up self-organization is effortless and maximally efficient – it happens naturally as a result of the mere existence of a large collective of individuals each with a certain amount of their own free will. However, both processes of organization seem to be essential in our universe. We can actually find biological processes in our own bodies that work according to both of these organizing processes and we know our bodies are marvels of harmony and functioning – so the two processes CAN and do work together – it just seems that humans are currently a little awkward at integrating them with each other.

        I’ve theorized that humans are unconsciously and naturally working toward a “world organism” via bottom-up self-organization that would appear to have its own independent existence in the same way that we have an independent existence apart from the billions of cells that comprise our bodies. It would be the ultimate bee hive – maybe a human hive? Probably we need a different word. I’ve often wondered if there are extraterrestrial species out there that have already developed such a world organism. And indeed, would even higher levels of organization be possible where many worlds interacted with each other in order to create a higher order, independent “being”? And higher than that? A galactic being? Universal being? Would us lowly human beings even be able to intellectually grasp such higher levels of “being”? Do our cells individually grasp our higher order independent existence as humans?

        To answer your question more directly, I would hope a higher intelligence would have the ability to see when species were following a top-down control approach and when they were using bottom-up self-organization. I feel like “hive mind” is just a synonym for bottom-up, self-organizing, Emergent processes. I would guess that the current goals of the globalists right now are to impose an overarching top-down control and surveillance system on humanity. But I think it’s doomed to fail for the reasons I mentioned above (too inefficient and wasteful compared to the alternative). Doesn’t mean they won’t give it a good college try though. Wishful thinking will get you every time. Maybe there is a harmonious way to integrate the two opposing processes of organization – a way that we are not seeing yet?

        This topic is ripe with philosophical implications of top-down versus bottom-up forms of organization. I’ve spent decades of time thinking about it. 🙂

        1
    2. Allan Lavigne

      Anthony,
      Thank you, you are correct. The use of “Hive-mind” in the general vocabulary has been misused in the same way as dimensions, both of which as actually defined are inappropriate for their actual meaning as a posed to their use.
      Yes, a “Borg-Mind” where a central brain is linked to each member of the civilization is more appropriately what people are referring to rather than the Hive-mind of Bees and Ants whose behavior is genetically determined and instinctive from the time they are hatched. Of course Phermons excreted by the Queen can mass signal the Hive and change behavior, your correct in that this is not how either Richard or I was using it, and I will be more precise in the future.
      Thank you for your critique. It is always appreciated.

      Allan Lavigne
      Former A.P.R.O. Investigator
      1974-1980

      1
  15. Bjofod

    Richard.

    The encounters you mention here suddenly struck me a little. I know we have spoken of them before but just a new idea. The church case and the Vegas case. Maybe there is more such cases – must be-

    With all the talk lately from many sides that this world may be a simulation. Not that I think that, far from it but.

    Maybe it is not our simulation but theirs. They use our reality to experience different things. I see no other explanation for a different reason to go to church or even Vegas then to experience our stuff.

    Much like the series Westworld… again…

Leave a Reply